Poetry Bookclub: Yeats's The Wild Swans at Coole

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Originally Posted by Quark

Well, I guess I didn't agree with you, then. Although, now I do agree with your last post. Pessimistic is too strong of a word, or, at any rate, it's the wrong word. Pessimistic would mean the poem is hopeless and dejected, and I don't get that from the poem. I just wanted to say that the poem contemplates loss which is often a depressing theme, and that there is a note of sadness which reflects that.

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Yes I agree, I truly do not feel this poem is hopeless. I do not even think it is truly depressing. There is a tough of saddness but I think there is also a foundness in the memories, and a hope for the future which is yet still unknown, even if the years are passing on and that is being refelcted upon.

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Their hearts have not grown old;
Passion or conquest, wander where they will,
Attend upon them still.

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I think these lines offer some glimpse of hope

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By what lake’s edge or pool
Delight men’s eyes, when I awake some day
To find they have flown away?

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I think that the last lines of the poem also suggest that it is truly not over yet, though the day will come and is speculated on. There is still time left.

The poem really is a deep one. I rather like how it is set in the months of Autumn. A sort of transitional phast right before the bareness of Winter, which is often associated with death. But there is still some beauty left within Autumn.

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All’s changed since I, hearing at twilight

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I think the use of the word twilight is another referance to age. And like Autumn it is sort of that period that is just upon the edge. The sun has not yet fully gone down, but it is starting its decent.

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Originally Posted by Virgil

Pessimistic is the wrong word, but it has a saddness to it. How else can you read these lines:

And then it ends on a real melancholy thought:

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Yeah, I was thinking of those lines in particular. Plus, it's not just the content of the poem which is sad, but also the sound of the lines. I can't quite put my finger on it, but something in the way it's put together gives me that feel. Maybe it's the stress pattern. The thoughts are grouped in two line pairs, and the lines go from four stresses to three. Something about that is sort of somber. The first line is long and opens possibilities, and the second shorter line is anti-climatic and depressing.

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Originally Posted by Dark Muse

Yes I agree, I truly do not feel this poem is hopeless. I do not even think it is truly depressing. There is a tough of saddness but I think there is also a foundness in the memories, and a hope for the future which is yet still unknown, even if the years are passing on and that is being refelcted upon.

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You're right the future is unknown, but the past is known and it was filled with passion and love. The future entails the loss of that.

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Originally Posted by Dark Muse

I think these lines offer some glimpse of hope

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Those lines are cheerful, but they describe the birds which are leaving the poet.

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Originally Posted by Dark Muse

I think that the last lines of the poem also suggest that it is truly not over yet, though the day will come and is speculated on. There is still time left.

The poem really is a deep one. I rather like how it is set in the months of Autumn. A sort of transitional phast right before the bareness of Winter, which is often associated with death. But there is still some beauty left within Autumn.

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Right, it isn't totally hopeless. The autumn of the poet is quite serene and beautiful.

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Originally Posted by Quark

That's interesting--the swans as Yeats's waning poetic genius, and the speaker as Ireland's literary movement.

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Considering sawn as symbols of poetic genius,


--- The swan is the ensign of poets and musicians. It symbolizes perfection, beauty, and grace. For a bearer of the swan it represents a lover of poetry and harmony, or a learned person. ---

We can interpret the poem as he's feairng of losing his power as the poet and being unable to write poetry as well as he wrote in his passionate and delightful youth. Nineteen years ago, there were nine and fifty swans, and now they are flying away, what will happen to his artistic power when he becomes old.

But there is some hopefulness in the poetry. 19 years ago they were 59, now they are 59. Maybe there will be 59 in the future, as Yeats wrote his best poetry when he was old (after fifties).

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Originally Posted by Quark

The poet is looking out at these swans which symbolize his youthful passion, and he's seeing them leaving.

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The nineteenth Autumn has come upon me
Since I first made my count;
I saw, before I had well finished,
All suddenly mount
And scatter wheeling in great broken rings
Upon their clamorous wings

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Considering this stanza, If we take "I saw, before I had well ..." as an act when he was 19, can we say once they flew away but now they are at the lake. Although he thought they (the passion) will be gone, they are still there. he knows this passion will decline, but he is not sure when.

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Originally Posted by Quark

The first stanza describes this autumn of his days as dignified and calm. So, perhaps the poem isn't completely pessimistic. But, it does have a melancholy theme.

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This calmness is evident even when one read the poem. The words, rhythem, rhyme all represent this calmness which is pleasant though melancholic.

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Originally Posted by Dark Muse

Hehe, I said that it was not pessimistic. I think that pessimistic is too strong a word. That is not the feeling that I got from the poem.

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:D You are right, i thought you wrote it is pessimistic. Sorry :yawnb:

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By what lake’s edge or pool
Delight men’s eyes, when I awake some day
To find they have flown away?

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Originally Posted by Virgil

And then t ends on a real melancholy thought:

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Originally Posted by Dark Muse

I think these lines offer some glimpse of hope



I think that the last lines of the poem also suggest that it is truly not over yet, though the day will come and is speculated on. There is still time left.

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I agree with Dark Muse. It represents a kind of hope inspite of his soubting it. If it were a statement, yes it could be hopeless end, but he is not sure and he is asking about this end.

Hmm perhaps look at the first two lines;

THE TREES are in their autumn beauty,
The woodland paths are dry,

That essentially sets the setting. Everything else is downhill from here, since he is getting old.

The next 4 lines seem to set the moment however, when he writes;

Under the October twilight the water
Mirrors a still sky;
Upon the brimming water among the stones 5
Are nine and fifty swans. (great rhyme with stones and swans)

The moment of course, he is commenting, is beautiful. October is, in my opinion, being used here to symbolize again autumn, and the coming of the end of his middle years, turning into his later years. The swans here are representing the fruits of his years, his achievement and pleasures, his desires and enjoyments, but they are placed right beside October, symbolizing their migration south, and their disappearance from his life.

The nineteenth Autumn has come upon me
Since I first made my count;
I saw, before I had well finished,
All suddenly mount 10
And scatter wheeling in great broken rings
Upon their clamorous wings.


This second stanza is probably the most central for the development. It implies that he had started feeling his time was running out. 1900 being a significant year, not only because of the turn of the century, but also because of his rejections from Maude Goone, to whom he proposed marriage in 1899, 1900, and 1901. The last lines of this poem seem to show the sudden fading of everything, symbolized again with the departing swans.

I have looked upon those brilliant creatures,
And now my heart is sore.
All’s changed since I, hearing at twilight, 15
The first time on this shore,
The bell-beat of their wings above my head,
Trod with a lighter tread

This stanza seems to be attempting to appeal to the emotions he is feeling. He is commenting that he has enjoyed these things, looked on them, watched them, but now they are different. He feels them growing older as well, and slower, and lighter, symbolizing the increasing difficulty of life, and its lack of reward. The Trod with a Lighter Tread is also a reference to his life, and the responsibility and carefulness that comes with age. It is contrasted to a younger, less worrisome life that he has left behind.

Unwearied still, lover by lover,
They paddle in the cold, 20
Companionable streams or climb the air;
Their hearts have not grown old;
Passion or conquest, wander where they will,
Attend upon them still.

Now he is distancing himself, as the poet, from the swans. They now appear to seem like everyone else, that is, the next generation, the young. They are not old, and they are still experiencing the fruits of youthfulness, personified in the "unwearied still, lover by lover," and "passion or conquest, wander where they will," These lines seem to isolate the poet from the swans, since he is now to old to enjoy the same feelings they have. He has responsibilities, age, and loneliness to deal with. His passion is ebbing, and he is too old to "paddle in the cold / companionable streams or climb the air;" He essentially caps this off with the last line, "attend upon them still" proving that he no longer has these abilities, but is bound to another fate, all kept in mind with the concept of autumn that is running through the whole poem.


But now they drift on the still water 25
Mysterious, beautiful;
Among what rushes will they build,
By what lake’s edge or pool
Delight men’s eyes, when I awake some day
To find they have flown away?

He returns here to the concept of the moment, commenting on how he is enjoying the last of them, but acknowledging that one day he will awake to find they have moved on, literally south, symbolically to the next generation. The "when I awake some day" is symbolic again of age and hinting at death, capped off with "to find they have flown away?" the poem seems to be pushing now away from the concept of the moment, into the concept of age, saying essentially, in my opinion, "but I have some time left, but it is running out."

Overall this is one of Yeats' most famous and most anthologized poems. The metre and rhymes seem to give it a perfect rhythm for memorization (which I invite all of you to undertake with me) and also a liquid, water-like flow, seeming to echo his swans. The images remain significant because they deal with an experience all of us must feel to some extent or another. The deep meaning, which sets it apart from other poems, I find, however, is that it is not an age makes you wise statement, as seen in the bible, or an age makes you foolish statement, as seen in King Lear, but rather a depiction of the aging man from his perspective, showing the emptiness, loneliness, and desperation of a man waiting for the time to come when he can no longer enjoy all that he values.

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Originally Posted by sofia82

We can interpret the poem as he's feairng of losing his power as the poet and being unable to write poetry as well as he wrote in his passionate and delightful youth. Nineteen years ago, there were nine and fifty swans, and now they are flying away, what will happen to his artistic power when he becomes old.

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Originally I found this interpretation rather doubtful, but looking back at the last stanza I think it's actually quite applicable. Yeats writes

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But now they drift on the still water 25
Mysterious, beautiful;
Among what rushes will they build,
By what lake’s edge or pool
Delight men’s eyes, when I awake some day
To find they have flown away?

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If the still water represents the serenity of his old age, why are the swans, who represent the water's opposite, floating on it? And, if the swans represent the poet's youthful passion why does he speculate about where they might go? Youthful passions don't relocate; they weaken and then disappear. Poetry, however, can be considered transfered between people. It is something that will "delight men's eyes."

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Originally Posted by sofia82

19 years ago they were 59, now they are 59. Maybe there will be 59 in the future, as Yeats wrote his best poetry when he was old (after fifties).

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JBI recently suggested that the 19 years is connected with the year 1900, which makes some sense. What about the 59 swans, though? Why does he pick that number, or why does he even bother to specify the number?

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Originally Posted by sofia82

I agree with Dark Muse. It represents a kind of hope inspite of his soubting it. If it were a statement, yes it could be hopeless end, but he is not sure and he is asking about this end.

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Those lines refer to the swan, and not the poet or his present condition.

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Originally Posted by JBI

The moment of course, he is commenting, is beautiful. October is, in my opinion, being used here to symbolize again autumn, and the coming of the end of his middle years, turning into his later years. The swans here are representing the fruits of his years, his achievement and pleasures, his desires and enjoyments, but they are placed right beside October, symbolizing their migration south, and their disappearance from his life.

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That's safe to say. I think we all agree with this.

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Originally Posted by JBI

This second stanza is probably the most central for the development.

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You're starting to sound like Virgil now. Everything has a central passage or a key scene.

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Originally Posted by JBI

1900 being a significant year, not only because of the turn of the century, but also because of his rejections from Maude Goone, to whom he proposed marriage in 1899, 1900, and 1901.

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That's an interesting explanation of the nineteenth autumn. What do you make of the 59 swans? Why that many?

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Originally Posted by JBI

This stanza seems to be attempting to appeal to the emotions he is feeling. He is commenting that he has enjoyed these things, looked on them, watched them, but now they are different. He feels them growing older as well, and slower, and lighter, symbolizing the increasing difficulty of life, and its lack of reward. The Trod with a Lighter Tread is also a reference to his life, and the responsibility and carefulness that comes with age. It is contrasted to a younger, less worrisome life that he has left behind.

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I think the lighter tread refers to how the birds flew in the past, and not how they appear at the time of the poet's speech. The first sentence of that stanza talks of the present, and the second describes his first view of them nineteen years ago. The "lighter tread" part comes in the second sentence.

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Originally Posted by JBI

Now he is distancing himself, as the poet, from the swans.

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That's a good observation. The swans start to take on a character of their own and leave him behind.

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Originally Posted by JBI

I find, however, is that it is not an age makes you wise statement, as seen in the bible, or an age makes you foolish statement, as seen in King Lear, but rather a depiction of the aging man from his perspective, showing the emptiness, loneliness, and desperation of a man waiting for the time to come when he can no longer enjoy all that he values.

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Yes, I think the word "emptiness" is particularly fitting. He's abandoned by the swans, just as his passion, interest, and affection in life is drying up. The emptiness is placid, but ultimately it's empty.

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The nineteenth Autumn has come upon me
Since I first made my count;
I saw, before I had well finished,
All suddenly mount 10
And scatter wheeling in great broken rings
Upon their clamorous wings.

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Originally Posted by JBI

This second stanza is probably the most central for the development. It implies that he had started feeling his time was running out. 1900 being a significant year, not only because of the turn of the century, but also because of his rejections from Maude Goone, to whom he proposed marriage in 1899, 1900, and 1901. The last lines of this poem seem to show the sudden fading of everything, symbolized again with the departing swans.

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That is intersting, I do not know much about Yeats, but I can see now the signifigance of the symbolisim of the "broken rings" in light of his own personal rejections of marraige.

I also had previously wondered at the importance of the 19th Autumn

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Originally Posted by Quark

That's an interesting explanation of the nineteenth autumn. What do you make of the 59 swans? Why that many?

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I could be wrong but I don't think there is any symbolism with the numbers. I think they are real facts. It's probably been 19 years since he has been going there and there really were 59 swans. Interesting he has an odd number. An odd number implies that one swan is not paired.

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Originally Posted by Virgil

I could be wrong but I don't think there is any symbolism with the numbers. I think they are real facts. It's probably been 19 years since he has been going there and there really were 59 swans. Interesting he has an odd number. An odd number implies that one swan is not paired.

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I could be thinking too hard, but I just wondered why Yeats would bother with the number if it didn't matter. It probably just fit well in the verse.

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Originally Posted by Quark

I could be thinking too hard, but I just wondered why Yeats would bother with the number if it didn't matter. It probably just fit well in the verse.

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I thought for a moment that maybe the number of swans reperesented the age, but than I wondered if maybe 59 was a bit too old for the theme of the poem

He wasn't yet 59, since he was born in 1865, making him 54 in 1919.

Ahh ok, thanks

Quark, you are to be complimented on the artistic elements of the first posting.