Why are we born?

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Originally Posted by Joyeuse

The problem I have with the idea of us continually evolving into perfect beings is this: if becoming a perfect race was the goal, why weren't we just born a perfect race?

I think that maybe we were created by a fluke. Something random just happened and we in fact have no purpose. Life is to be lived how you wish it to be lived. If you wish to give it a purpose, then you can do so. If you wish to just float around in life living it, that's cool too. Life is like a blank slate you can project your philosophies and aspirations onto.

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I think factually you are correct, however I think we all have a responsibilty to apply ethics to our lives.

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Originally Posted by Joyeuse

In response to Drapperdrake's ideas about human degeneration (along with the link he put up), I think that whether or not it's true, it's very creepy. Eerily reminiscent of Hitler's Eugenics. Even though the link tries to say that the idea shouldn't be judged because of what Hitler did, think about it. How could the information that our gene pool is being tarnished be positively used without killing those who are tarnishing the gene pool or sterilizing them? It can't be used, really. And do we really have the right to kill or sterilize people just to keep the gene pool up? And who are we to say whether someone is tarnishing the gene pool or not? There are some people who are physically or mentally handicapped in certain areas who excel in others. What would you do with a person who was socially handicapped yet was an amazing mathematician? He degenerates the gene pool in one way yet enriches it in another way.

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Well yes indeed, I certainly hope I never live to see the necessity of measures such as sterilization but if the theory is correct (and it hasn't been proven correct) then something like that would be needed.

As you point out eugenics or anything remotely like it is an extreamly inflammable idea and extreamly difficult to implement, but its conceivable that our current ethics may be a death sentence for the species.

Should Man have the given right to procreate?

Nothing happens by fluke.Every thing has a reason .We have a reason to be here.We are surely moving towards perfection but in order to reach there we have to go through a lot of cycles.
We are related to each other biologically.We are related to earth ,chemically and we are related to this universe atomically.We were born because the Universe was ones born and the sequence of activities followed and here we are today.If we have to find answers we can not isolate philosophy from science and spirituality because it would take more than just these three to answer such complex questions.

How ironic is that we have come from nothingness to nonliving to living beings today.So is it that we are related to the nonliving things as much as we to the living things.The cycle of living and non living is what amuses me.Are stars living like us or non living ?If according to us they are non living then how come they follow this cycle of life and death just like us and if what made us were non living things .What is our significance as human beings.

In bhagvad Gita it is said that we are the part and parcel of the supreme being and all of us are born from him.If we consider that supreme being as cosmos ,we inturn are constituted of cosmic dust as the rest of the cosmos itself .

So i would like to conclude and say that we were born because the Universe was born and We still have to find out why and how the universe was born out of nothingness.

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Originally Posted by DapperDrake

I think factually you are correct, however I think we all have a responsibilty to apply ethics to our lives.



Well yes indeed, I certainly hope I never live to see the necessity of measures such as sterilization but if the theory is correct (and it hasn't been proven correct) then something like that would be needed.

As you point out eugenics or anything remotely like it is an extreamly inflammable idea and extreamly difficult to implement, but its conceivable that our current ethics may be a death sentence for the species.

Should Man have the given right to procreate?

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Hmmm... How would our gene pool continuing in the direction its going actually be a death sentence to the human race? If you think about it, lethal genetic defects are usually weeded out of the gene pool pretty quickly. If they're not (long-term diseases,) than they aren't lethal enough to actually wipe out mankind. (To keep the faulty gene going, you would have to procreate; to procreate you would have to be alive.) The link you provided states that society would collapse and the old world would kill us all. Yet, it would take a radical and rapid change for mankind to be weak enough to not be able to maintain its own society (with machines, computers, and such) I don't think genes change that quickly.

Also, I do believe that Man has the given right to procreate, because we're talking about mens' bodies. Inherent in them is the ability to procreate, and they are not hurting anyone (directly) by doing this. If two people each decide they want to procreate with each other, than that is their own business.

Also, when talking about sterilization and murder and such, you also run into a major problem inherent in human nature: who will decide who is killed and who is sterilized? That is a (somewhat) subjective question. Anyone who has this power might use it to just kill others they don't like. (He proved himself genetically inferior by supporting an idea no sane man would support; that kind of idea)

[Sorry, this is starting to get off-topic. Maybe we should move this discussion to a new thread?]

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Originally Posted by Joyeuse

Hmmm... How would our gene pool continuing in the direction its going actually be a death sentence to the human race? If you think about it, lethal genetic defects are usually weeded out of the gene pool pretty quickly. If they're not (long-term diseases,) than they aren't lethal enough to actually wipe out mankind. (To keep the faulty gene going, you would have to procreate; to procreate you would have to be alive.) The link you provided states that society would collapse and the old world would kill us all. Yet, it would take a radical and rapid change for mankind to be weak enough to not be able to maintain its own society (with machines, computers, and such) I don't think genes change that quickly.

Also, I do believe that Man has the given right to procreate, because we're talking about mens' bodies. Inherent in them is the ability to procreate, and they are not hurting anyone (directly) by doing this. If two people each decide they want to procreate with each other, than that is their own business.

Also, when talking about sterilization and murder and such, you also run into a major problem inherent in human nature: who will decide who is killed and who is sterilized? That is a (somewhat) subjective question. Anyone who has this power might use it to just kill others they don't like. (He proved himself genetically inferior by supporting an idea no sane man would support; that kind of idea)

[Sorry, this is starting to get off-topic. Maybe we should move this discussion to a new thread?]

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Yes it is getting off topic and off my original point, I merely wanted to point out that its not by any means certain that the human race is currently evolving to become better (biologically). - That is my only point.

The link I supplied is perhaps a bit of a red herring, as I said I didn't really read the webpage but just observed that it seemed to be discussing similar topics. The propogation of mutations was not actually what I was refering to in my first post, I was refering more to the effects of selective breeding

but to answer your question "How would our gene pool continuing in the direction its going actually be a death sentence to the human race?", well I think you only need to use a bit of imagination - in a thousand years the cumulative effects of the selective pressures I refered to in my first post could dramatically reduce our IQ as a species - even with our current IQ it could be argued that we're strugling to keep civilisation viable with our growing populations.
Plus of course if you look at a species as an organism, you can see that the health and fittness of that organism are dependant on natural selection - who knows what happens in the long run when natural selection is removed? the organism (species) has evolved over billions of years purely by that mechanism.

But thats all highly speculative and I have no intention of supporting it in argument, take it for what its worth.

The rights of Man is another topic and also interesting - The right of procreation is of course jealously gaurded by most people, esp. women, but at the end of the day the Earth is only so big... How long can we continue to just let our population increase unchecked?

I think we are just a scientific experiment started made some alien, they wanted to see how long it would take for us to destroy a planet
in that sense we are all no more than some experiments developed by some awesome alien scientist :alien:

I was born with a specific purpose, but then I was found by the Martians and made their king, so I guess the destiny at birth is not all defining for ones life, there is always the Deus Ex Machina that can interfere and give you nice shiny spaceships to play with, and also a toothbrush.

My life is obscure and intricate to wholly comprehend.I did not chose my life initially,for I was born within the fusion of the nucleus of reproductive cells,and subsequently,this life commences.But the ultimate philosophy is what had Confucius cited,"Is it not pleasant to learn with a constant perseverance and application?Is it not delightful to have friends coming from distant quarters?Is he not a man of complete virtue, who feels no discomposure though men may take no note of him?''
And this philosopher is inevitably intellectual.We should have tenacity,acquaintances and manfully.

Let me make this clear for all of you ...
We r born .TO WORSHIP THE ONLY CREATOR..THE ONLY ONE GOD..
to worship & build this earth..
And we came in to being coz GOD created us..
You were nothing but He put the soul into this piece of meat in the womb of ur mother ..
he gave u life.. food .... safe in ur mother womb.. no one .. NO ANYTHING can do that..
So now when u came to the world.. u should worship Him .. & follow his order.

Why are we born? I don't know. If I knew, I wouldn't be sitting here staring at my computer fighting sleep. What am I doing with my life would be a better question to ask myself indeed. Anyway, I haven't chosen to be born and to make an end to my life isn't the least my intention. But how to get the best of it (as crap as it is) is my consern till I'm put in my grave.
Taking from Shakespeare I would say
To be born or not be this is not the question
But making the best of it would be my intention

Why are we born? I don't know. If I knew, I wouldn't be sitting here staring at my computer fighting sleep. What am I doing with my life would be a better question to ask myself indeed. Anyway, I haven't chosen to be born and to make an end to my life isn't the least my intention. But how to get the best of it (as crap as it is) is my consern till I'm put in my grave.
Taking from Shakespeare I would say
To be born or not be this is not the question
But making the best of it would be my intention

We are born because our parents had desires, which resulted in our conception. It is simple biology. I do not believe we are born with any purpose or plan. If there is such a thing as a god, I hope he is not intervening. Do not touch a hair on my head, please leave me as I am. The purpose of my life, anyway, is whatever I will it or want it to be. As of now, my purpose is writing on this thread. In the next five minutes, my purpose will be something else. We are the product of desires, nothing more, nothing less.

to the extent that we trust our sense organs and extensions there of, biology answers the "why are we born" question.

To reproduce.

we are born again ,as our dormant innerself is not able to guide us to find the purpose of our lifeand we die without discovering our purpose of life and hence we are born again to find it out and this cycle goes on till we discover and resolve the mystry of life and its purpose

The anxiety of being born is the greatest shock we can expereince as human beings. The expereince of first coming out of the womb is unimaginable; to come out, completely ignorant, cold, crying, having had no consciousness. This shock is something we outgrow and forget, but then remember upon contemplation.

The question is as mind-boggling as the experience of being born again is. We sit in despair when no clear answer is given to us, or when the absurdity of the world outgrows the belief of an all-encompassing purpose. Our purpose can only be determined by ourselves and by what we make of ourselves. With self-discovery comes self-determination. As for me, my purpose for being here is to love and be loved. It is not the meaning of my life, for there is no meaning. It is merely the thing which keeps me getting up in the morning, what keeps me from falling into the abyss of apathy and indifference.