March / Ireland Reading: Dubliners by James Joyce

I thought "A Little Cloud" was the most moving of all the stories. How, the shy narrator, unable to express himself, yet desiring to tell his wife his feelings, and to show to his friend his life was worthwhile, ends up realizing that his own son has usurped his wife's affection. Heartbreaking, yet completely realistic.

I think the thing with Joyce is, as I have heard a critic say, though forget which one, we all want to know who his characters are, and how he knows them, since the range is so fascinating, and each story is so plausible and realistic, yet it is impossible to see how Joyce could have accumulated such a great insight into the variety of people living in Dublin, from all forms of society.

You obviously haven been to dublin!:p Everywhere you turn you meet someone different form all society as you say. But then again i suppose it is something i would notice because i'm a dubliner. (shame theres no shrugging smilie) It would have been the same for Joyce. It also should be pointed out that he has experienced the variety of society himself growing up; going from middle class society in bray to working class inner city dublin. He'd have seen teh snobbery of upper classes and the poverty of families thrown together in tenements..

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I thought "A Little Cloud" was the most moving of all the stories. How, the shy narrator, unable to express himself, yet desiring to tell his wife his feelings, and to show to his friend his life was worthwhile, ends up realizing that his own son has usurped his wife's affection. Heartbreaking, yet completely realistic.

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You're right! What a great and moving story it was! Little Clouds (who doesn't have any "Little Clouds" that hang over them) will definitely go down in my memory as being one of the better and more personally touching stories I've read.

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Originally Posted by Cailin

The Dead left me somewhat for cold the first time I read it too. Then I went to the Joyce Centre and sat down at a live action version of the story where the audience were welcomed as guests. Returning to the story I found it extremely moving. Has anyone seen the John Huston film?

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Yes, Cailin, I have seen the film and infact own it on VHS tape and love it. I was about to mention it when I read your post. I have watched it many times now and it only gets better. They say it was Houston's 'Valentine' to Ireland and he features his daugther in the film. I love all the characters and the acting is superb; I think one can get a better picture of what is going on conversationally in the story. I have read the story many times as well, and the last lines strike me all the time, right straight to the my core, like an arrow. I also like the film called "Nora" which explores the personal relationship between Joyce and his wife. The film stars two very fine actors that pull it off well - Susan Lynch and Ewan McGregor. If you see the film, you will understand that the story in "The Dead" that the wife tells her husband, Gabriel, is indeed the actual story that Nora told to Joyce when they were married. This part is autobiographical and I think, when I found this out it gave the story "The Dead" much more meaning and depth for me. personally. I think the complexity of Gabriel's feelings at the end of that story is what makes the story so compelling. I always ponder the last lines for days, after reading the story again or seeing the film or the biographical film, which gives it even more poignancy.

I think it is interesting what you say, Nimah, about Dublin today. We are lucky to get a first hand impression from you, since you actually live there. Do you think, that in Joyce's time, the situations of diversity in the big city were as apparent as they are today? I am just curious and like to learn more about that time period in Dublin history and Joyce's time. I also am quite interested in Dublin, present day.

One of my favorite of the "Dubliners" stories is "Araby" and I do love the story "The Dead". It certainly is a great collection and diverse and I wish I could currently find my book, which seems to be eluding me from my bookshelves. I read the entire book a few years ago, but since have re-read "Araby" and "The Dead." I also have read "Portrait of an Artist as a Young Man" which is excellent, but somehow I love the short stories of Joyce's best of all.

I recon it is still somewhat the same as it was back then.
The thing about Joyces Dublin is what was going on back then. The Irish Literary revival which was mainly headed by Aristocrats, but the players that preformed in some of the theatres were from every society. O'Connell street (or Sackville street as it was called back then) was one of the main streets in Dublin at the time, same as now. Some of the pricey shops where there, but yet literally around the corner were tenements, so the wealthy upper class, middle classes, working classes and the down right poor were never that far from each other.
Not too mention all the nationalism. was like an addictive drug back then. Alot of patriotism..and he was surrounded by it.

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Originally Posted by Niamh

I recon it is still somewhat the same as it was back then.
The thing about Joyces Dublin is what was going on back then. The Irish Literary revival which was mainly headed by Aristocrats, but the players that preformed in some of the theatres were from every society. O'Connell street (or Sackville street as it was called back then) was one of the main streets in Dublin at the time, same as now. Some of the pricey shops where there, but yet literally around the corner were tenements, so the wealthy upper class, middle classes, working classes and the down right poor were never that far from each other.
Not too mention all the nationalism. was like an addictive drug back then. Alot of patriotism..and he was surrounded by it.

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Thanks Niamh, this is some good first-hand information from a native Dubliner. I wonder though how different Dublin is from other big cities. Is it the close proximity of the neighborhoods and how they overlap, or border each other? Is it the combination of the various classes living side-by-side that makes Dublin unique? It seems in parts of NYC, there are areas like this, where there might be pricey shops, but then a few blocks from there, there are tenements or very poor streets.
The nationalism and patriotism make sense to me. I can see where that was a huge element in Joyce's writing especially in "The Dead" story and the story about a board room...I forget the exact name; woe is me - I still have not located my book of "Dubliners".:bawling:

edit: I just looked it up and the story is "Ivy Day in the Committee Room"...it has been awhile since I read it but it seemed to be strong on political, nationlistic, patriotic views....as least I think....I need to review it actually.

Well like most places, Dublin is split into areas. Dublin 4 being one of the most expensive places to live in the city. Its home to most of the Ambassadors to Dublin, Filty rich, The Four Season, and RDS, But Dublin 4 also consists of Ringsend which is a bit dog rough, run down and working class.
On the northside of the city we have another couple of examples. Clontarf is a very settled middle class area,quiet, respectable, but then there is also a part of Clontarf thats more working class than the rest.
Most parts of inner city Dublin have new posh apartment blocks side by side with council flats. Its just the way Dublin is really....

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Originally Posted by Niamh

Well like most places, Dublin is split into areas. Dublin 4 being one of the most expensive places to live in the city. Its home to most of the Ambassadors to Dublin, Filty rich, The Four Season, and RDS, But Dublin 4 also consists of Ringsend which is a bit dog rough, run down and working class.
On the northside of the city we have another couple of examples. Clontarf is a very settled middle class area,quiet, respectable, but then there is also a part of Clontarf thats more working class than the rest.
Most parts of inner city Dublin have new posh apartment blocks side by side with council flats. Its just the way Dublin is really....

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Thanks Niamh, that makes sense to me. I guess it is very much like many cities but maybe more so back in Joyce's day in distinction in this divided way. It is interesting to hear of all the different names of the areas or districts. Niamh, you can be our 'good-will ambassador' to Dublin and educate us all.;)

I gave up hunting for my book and checked "Dubliners" out of my local library tonight. It should be interesting to re-read some of the stories.

A little off topic, but does anyone know what "class" Joyce would have been considered? In which area of Dublin would he have lived?

He was at first probably middle class. His dad had a very good job they lived in Bray until only a little while after his dad lost his job. I think his family moved back into dublin from there, most likely inner city dublin. He attended a school on the north richmond street, which is one of the streets mentioned in dubliners.

That is funny, I was going to ask the same question. Glad that got answered. Thank, Niamh....very helpful.

Since someone mentioned the story "A Little Cloud", I decided to start with that one, since I could not clearly recall it; so I read half of it last night. I liked it so far; unfortunately I feel asleep reading it. When I finish up, I will talk a little about it. I was lucky enough to get this book from my library, which includes commentary notes at the back - they seem to be very helpful.

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Originally Posted by Janine

so I read half of it last night. I liked it so far; unfortunately I feel asleep reading it.

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Thats never a good sign!!!:p

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Originally Posted by Niamh

Thats never a good sign!!!:p

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:lol: Niamh, it can be the most exciting book and I will nod off. Audiobooks are even worse for me. I lay down with headphones on and I am doomed. I usually wake up hours later, all the room lights are still on and the batteries are now low and I missed most of the CD or the MP3 file, since it finally shut off. It is a sure cure for insomnia! ;) :eek2: :lol: It is called 'trying to do too darn much!'...it was after 3:30 AM last night when I fell asleep, and after viewing two movies, so I guess I can be excused. Hopefully, I will finish up the story tonight...and stay awake. I made cappuccino after dinner, so that might help revive me. :eek::D

I nodded off whist reading "The Ivy League Committee Room" today. I was tired and not really getting it, I guess. But I can nod off while reading anything, so it's no big deal.

I've finished all the stories except for the Dead now. That story is the most famous, so I can't wait to read it. I'll share my thoughts on it sometimes tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by Kent Edwins

I nodded off whist reading "The Ivy League Committee Room" today. I was tired and not really getting it, I guess. But I can nod off while reading anything, so it's no big deal.

I've finished all the stories except for the Dead now. That story is the most famous, so I can't wait to read it. I'll share my thoughts on it sometimes tomorrow.

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Kent, of all the stories, I found that one the hardest to get through and to understand. I can see how you would nod off.

"The Dead" is a great story - a perfect story in my opinion. I like the film by John Houston, also. I mentioned it a few posts back. If you have a chance do see it someday. They say it was Houstons' valentine to his native Ireland. It perfectly captures the story in my opinion. I own the film on VHS tape and have viewed it more than once. I love it!