Short stories are an outdated form

when was the last time anyone of us read a serialized novel in a magazine?
probably the in 19th century?

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Originally Posted by Jamesian

I can partially agree with this; the internet has largely filled the gap originally reserved for magazines (though we should note that many major magazines post their content weekly to their websites). But some people - me, for instance - will always read them. And regarding fiction in mags: I recently did in fact read a Jennifer Egan story in The New Yorker, and have just begun another (by E.L. Doctorow - last year's PEN/Faulkner winner) from last weeks. I try, when I have time, to do this.

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Yes, the New Yorker is a pretty good magazine. I used to read it in the library a very long time ago, when i would go to a library regularly. I just came actross it again while waiting in a doctor's office Monday. And there in fact was a short story, I don't recall by who, but i told myself i should subscribe to this. Plus, if you live in New York it tells you about all the cultural events in town. But it does publish quality short stories.

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Originally Posted by SleepyWitch

I don't really know enough about short stories to make any meaningful contribution here, but I'll admit that I personally find the whole short-story reading experience ...well .. not very satisfying. especially the slice of life type...
I like to read about interesting characters and learn lots of details about them. I can identify with almost any character in a novel, whether I find their actions morally acceptable or not. but in short stories, the characters seem to be more generic and the emphasis is on plot, or whatever.

I read lots of Hemmingway's short stories in high school, and I like them quite a lot. An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge by Ambrose Bierce was OK, too, but most of the others I've read so far were just so pointless (personally speaking...).
Poe? :cold: :alien:
Eveline by James Joyce :sick:
Graham Greene, the one where the last Pope on earth gets shot by the dictator WTF :eek:

A.S. Byatt The Djinn in the Nightingale's Eye, OK :), except that it's a a story written by a Lit scholar, about a Lit scholar and for Lit scholars :mad:

sorry, I know I'm a total cretin. so please don't take this posts too seriously, it's jut my personal opinion.

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There are some really fine short story writers, Sleepy you should check out. Hemingway is at his best in the short story, much better than his novels, if you ask me. His friend F. Scott Fitgerald (author of The Great Gatsby) is a fine short story writer. Check out "Bernice Bobs Her Hair". Raymond Carver is a fine short story writer. Flannery O'Connor you might like. For some reason, the American writers have excelled in this form. It seems to have been more of an American genre, I guess starting with Poe but even before that going back to Washington Irving, although I'm sure everyone is going to start listing their country's short story writers. Of the English short story writers, personally for me, DH Lawrence is the best, even better than Joyce or Kipling, who are both good. You can join us in one of our DH Lawrence short story reads here on lit net, and get a feel for it. Or you can peruse the thread and read one of the stories and make your own judgement. If I think of more, i'll let you know. All the writers I've mentioned really elevated the artistry of the short story beyond just a slice of life or the surprise turn ending.

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Originally Posted by Virgil

There are some really fine short story writers, Sleepy you should check out. Hemingway is at his best in the short story, much better than his novels, if you ask me. His friend F. Scott Fitgerald (author of The Great Gatsby) is a fine short story writer. Check out "Bernice Bobs Her Hair". Raymond Carver is a fine short story writer. Flannery O'Connor you might like. For some reason, the American writers have excelled in this form. It seems to have been more of an American genre, I guess starting with Poe but even before that going back to Washington Irving, although I'm sure everyone is going to start listing their country's short story writers. Of the English short story writers, personally for me, DH Lawrence is the best, even better than Joyce or Kipling, who are both good. You can join us in one of our DH Lawrence short story reads here on lit net, and get a feel for it. Or you can peruse the thread and read one of the stories and make your own judgement. If I think of more, i'll let you know. All the writers I've mentioned really elevated the artistry of the short story beyond just a slice of life or the surprise turn ending.

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thanks Virge! I think I'll join you after I've handed in my thesis (Feb 5)

I don't think the short story is dead, though the magazines which publish the good short fiction are dying due to lack of readership. The internet is still a great medium for the good short story, check out this site which is thriving and offers a wide variety of good short stories, new and old : http://www.eastoftheweb.com/short-stories/

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Originally Posted by Watershed

Oh, please, short stories are far easier to write. The majority of people have a much harder time trying to expand their ideas into long-windedness than they do being for precise about them. How many novels have you written versus how many short stories have you written, if you're a writer? Writing a novel is truly a grand investment, not just of time, but of will and skill to write so much about so little.

Short stories are dead as an artiscally relevent money-making medium.

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Oh, please, short stories are much harder to write than novels, because they aren't long enough for the author too have room for mistakes. Short stories are thriving artistically. If you haven't read any good ones recently, that means that you haven't happened upon any.

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Originally Posted by SleepyWitch

when was the last time anyone of us read a serialized novel in a magazine?
probably the in 19th century?

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I have read a serialized novel in a magazine within the last 15 years. And it was a new magazine. But that was way back in the 20th century. I haven't seen any in the past year, but I haven't looked.

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Originally Posted by TheFifthElement

I don't think the short story is dead, though the magazines which publish the good short fiction are dying due to lack of readership. The internet is still a great medium for the good short story, check out this site which is thriving and offers a wide variety of good short stories, new and old : http://www.eastoftheweb.com/short-stories/

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Hey thanks Fifth. That looks like an interesting site.

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Originally Posted by PeterL

Oh, please, short stories are much harder to write than novels, because they aren't long enough for the author too have room for mistakes. Short stories are thriving artistically. If you haven't read any good ones recently, that means that you haven't happened upon any.

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I pretty much agree that a short story is hard to write, although a novel is pretty hard too. I think they require different skills. Not all good novelists make it as good short story writers and not all good short story writers make it as good novelists.

Short stories are an outdated form. Such a provocative statement!

Best American Short Stories gets published every year -- each time with a different editor. Last year, it was Steven King. You can read his comments on "What Ails the Short Story" here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/30/bo...w/King2-t.html

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Originally Posted by Virgil

I pretty much agree that a short story is hard to write, although a novel is pretty hard too. I think they require different skills. Not all good novelists make it as good short story writers and not all good short story writers make it as good novelists.

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It is true that some short story writers don't make good novelists and vice versa; but it generally is easier for a short story writer to expand to novel length than for novelists to whittle their writing down to 5000 words.

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Originally Posted by SleepyWitch

I'll admit that I personally find the whole short-story reading experience ...well .. not very satisfying. especially the slice of life type...
I like to read about interesting characters and learn lots of details about them. I can identify with almost any character in a novel, whether I find their actions morally acceptable or not. but in short stories, the characters seem to be more generic and the emphasis is on plot, or whatever.
.

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One way to find enjoyment in the short story, is to read a lot (or all of them) from your favorite author, who also writes novels. Then go to the novels and find the short stories inside of them. Marquez does this a lot, many many many (I don't want to say all in case I am wrong, though I don't think I would be there) of his short stories, characters and situations, appear in his Novels. This isn't only something that Marquez does but many writers do it (myself included) I've noticed that the writers I hang out with are always excited when they find a character from one of my shorts within a novel I'm writing. Its really pretty cool, Try it out. ;)

Also, a good example, is "Winter Dreams" by F. Scott. Fitzgerald. This is the short story that lead to "The Great Gatsby". There is a kind of weird enjoyment in seeing the evolution of a story and its characters like that.... Or maybe I'm just a nerd. Who knows. :lol:

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Originally Posted by lavendar1

Short stories are an outdated form. Such a provocative statement!

Best American Short Stories gets published every year -- each time with a different editor. Last year, it was Steven King. You can read his comments on "What Ails the Short Story" here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/30/bo...w/King2-t.html

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That was excellent, Lavendar. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by lavendar1

Best American Short Stories gets published every year -- each time with a different editor. Last year, it was Steven King. You can read his comments on "What Ails the Short Story" here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/30/bo...w/King2-t.html

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Thanks for the link. It's good to be reminded what a short story is.

Here's a confession. I admit that I used to be kind of 'luke-warm' about short stories, although I did always appreciate a few authors with this form. I liked some of the Russian authors, such as Tolstoy, Turgenev, etc. I also loved the O'Henry short stories. But since reading "Dubliners" and D.H.Lawrence and also, joining this forum, I enjoy and appreciate short stories so much more. As Virgil pointed out, we have a very active Lawrence thread of short stories. This has even served to make me more of an advocate of the short story. Until you read a good short story, and then read it again, and then discuss it with others, I don't think you really appreciate the power of the short story. I do think it takes great skill and talent and creativity to write a short story; to convey so much in less words. In novels one has much time to get to the point, but in a short story it takes usually a matter of an hour or so, to convey an idea. I certainly hope short stories never go out of fashion or popularity. I don't think they will, unless novels do, too.

I will say this. Good short stories are so good that I would love to see the medium resurge. I would love to see them really become relevant today. Perhaps I somewhat overreached in my declaring of the medium dead, but I think it's been in decline from the golden age. We need a movement to bring short stories back to both quality and popularity.

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Originally Posted by Kent Edwins

I'll be short and to the point. This can be said about nearly any artistic medium. Music, art, literature (for example who reads poetry anyway?)

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I think thats more of an arguement there then a short story. I always thought that poetry was a little useless. But thats neither here nor there.
I have to politely disagree, I think short stories are still useful. Its just like when we read a full blown novel, we know when we have a hit or a miss. Short stories are the same.
There are some short stories out there that I think bout to this day, just like a do with a good classics novel. Then there are some novels out there that arent fit to wipe my butt. It's all bout the content of what we are reading.