Abuse...Justifiable or not?

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Originally Posted by Dori

Yes, you are correct (with your second statement, at least). People should be able to connect this fear with their act of wrongdoing, therefore making it less likely that they'll repeat this wrongdoing.

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this fear is usually associated with the person who administers the punishment, not with the action you were punished for itself.

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Originally Posted by Dori

Revenge never solves anything.

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The criminal systems, jails and courts are all just sanctioned revenge. retribution is not revenge.

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Originally Posted by Bakiryu

The criminal systems, jails and courts are all just sanctioned revenge. retribution is not revenge.

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or is it keeping criminals from harming others?

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Originally Posted by Dori

Yes, you are correct (with your second statement, at least). People should be able to connect this fear with their act of wrongdoing, therefore making it less likely that they'll repeat this wrongdoing.



Revenge never solves anything.

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If revenge doesn't solve anything, why would abuse solve anything? It is funny that it works in one way and not in the other. :)

I agree with Baki, physical punishment is not the solution to me. It is an easy way out that people use with kids instead of talking to them and try to see why they act this or that way.

Abuse is wrong, but self defese is perfectly acceptable. As far as kids go, and I'm talking about toddlers who are unable to reason yet, there is a very big difference between abuse and discipline that too many people have crossed. I'd say more, but then I'd get personal.

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Originally Posted by papayahed

or is it keeping criminals from harming others?

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both. since criminals are prevented from harming others AND punished from the harm they did.

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Originally Posted by Bakiryu

both. since criminals are prevented from harming others AND punished from the harm they did.

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Not exactly true. Criminals in prisons harm other people almost everyday all around the world (even if they are other criminals). Heck! Some even lose their lives at the hands of others, beaten up so badly that they cant survive the injuries. And before anyone even thinks of saying "they are criminals so they deserve it", do you think someone who stole, should be delt with at the hands of a cold blooded murderer and assaulter?

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Originally Posted by Niamh

Not exactly true. Criminals in prisons harm other people almost everyday all around the world (even if they are other criminals). Heck! Some even lose their lives at the hands of others, beaten up so badly that they cant survive the injuries. And before anyone even thinks of saying "they are criminals so they deserve it", do you think someone who stole, should be delt with at the hands of a cold blooded murderer and assaulter?

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i agree.

oh and about abuse, I think it's wrong. The abused and abuser will both become victims.

My husband says if I ever talk during his New England Patriots game again while they are having the perfect season I may experience it. (kidding, of course.) Girlfriend/Boyfriend/Wife/Husband ...Never. No excuse.
Expecially children. Thats a little harsh.

How do you figure, the abuser is a victum?

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Originally Posted by Bakiryu

this fear is usually associated with the person who administers the punishment, not with the action you were punished for itself.

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This brings up an interesting point.

Although I've never experienced any torture (or any severe punishment for that matter), I have read about it. [SPOILER ALERT! IF YOU HAVEN'T READ 1984, STOP READING] George Orwell, in his novel 1984, depicted Winston as loving O'Brien, the person who administered his torture. This is because Winston knew O'Brien could take away the pain. In other words, Winston associated the coming of pain with his incorrect responses, rather than associating the pain with O'Brien.

I realize this is somewhat irrelevant to this discussion, but I thought it to be interesting enough to post it anyway.

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Originally Posted by Bakiryu

The criminal systems, jails and courts are all just sanctioned revenge. retribution is not revenge.

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I think there's a difference between revenge and justice. But I understand you're point nonetheless.