He asked Satan WHERE he had been. Where. Not who.
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He asked Satan WHERE he had been. Where. Not who.
You're right, Sorry. But look close at my post above analyzing the 'to and fro' subject and tell me what you think. It is in this same thread.
I wish to modify my previous post.
Satan is bad science fiction.
I finished Job, for some reason I thought it would be much longer. None-the-less, what is says is unmatched. The imagery of it is the most vivid possible. As all of us know, righteous thought this day and age, isn't limited to the religious. But in those days, while all shared without modern understandings, still these words ring forth. That fortunate people given the circumstances of luck, have truly fallen, if they contain little conscience of concern of those endless builders of civilizations builders. And those fortunate but who haven't fallen, will be made to build there own sanctuary, through sweat and blood, but come out unbound by anything. And to the one who leads us into tribulation, by paths forgotten by men, shall ultimate not make us forget goodness in the end.
In Job, Satan describes himself as "Walking to and fro on earth.", and later in the book we come across a passage describing an action by God, "He breaks open a shaft away from people; in places forgotten by feet they hang far away from men; they swing to and fro." The words to and fro appear in both.
I've done some small and general studies of Carl Jung and some of the basic concepts of his analytical psychology. 'The Ego' is the conscience self, and 'The Persona' is a mask built, learned beginning in childhood to display or correct society face. It is how you communicate in the world. Children learn it by being punished in school and taught by parents, and eventually it is simply who we are socially. 'The Shadow' is all these repressed things unaccepted by society that we store in the unconscious which are only utilize in private. Jung theorized that 'The Shadow' sometimes reveals itself in a dream as an enemy and is similarly menacing. Sometimes it can appear as the enemy of your particular nation, such that if you were an American your 'Shadow' might appear as a Islamic Terrorist. Another example is a junkie's 'Shadow' being an accusing police officer. 'The Moral Complex' also imposes restrictions on our 'Ego' and 'Persona' and is demonized in 'The Shadow'.
Maybe this has actual implications on God's breaking open a shaft away from people and places forgotten by feet i. e. 'The Shadow' literally being Satan. In other words our sins and evils are in us all to an extent, therefore hypocrisy is inevitable. And the 'Shadows' was menace in dreams, but become something menacing to our very right to life and needs to be conquered to enter heaven.
If you still do not understand than maybe this will help; In the Holocaust, Hitler convinced many German's rather successfully that 'The Shadow' was Jewish people.
Well, I would agree that in attempting to understand the concepts of Lucifer and Satan, the meaning of the story of Job, and similar questions that the popular dogfight of the dogmatically religious with their "God said it, I believe it, that settles it." vs. the majority of atheists who response with something like "That's a load of superstition nonsense - why don't you rubes get a clue?" is not going to get us all anywhere except to eventually take us back to the Australopithecus days of setting disputes with sticks and rocks.Quote:
Originally Posted by linz
I think we need to take it to a higher intellectual level. The use of the psychoanalysis method by Jung, Freud, Adler, and the general scientific approach to understanding exemplified by comparative mythologist Joseph Campbell can actually shed real light on these issues, obviating the need for sheer belief in the unbelievable and/or questioning of someone's level of intelligence or saneness.
I had one teacher in my Religious Education class (she emotionally scarred me btw), say that everything that distracts us from God is Satan. Intense!!
And probably incorrect. We distract ourselves fairly easily.
I totally agree...she really freaked me out. Didn't like me much cause I wore a Bob Marley shirt and listened to Led Zeppelin.Quote:
Originally Posted by weepingforloman
I don't really know what to say...is he like God, everywhere around us, or only in the bad stuff?
Satan, from scriptural clues, appears to be more finite in his scope than God. He mentions walking "to and fro" on the earth in the book of Job, and Paul says he is "like a roaring lion, looking for someone to devour."
Who could hate Bob Marley?!?
I KNOW! She was convinced I was a pot head...I've never done drugs in my life!
I heard this Baptist Minister say that Satan is in all of us, just waiting to get out and do his dirty deeds...done dirt cheap.:D
Good AC/DC reference. I don't smoke pot either, and I LOVE Marley. My brother got to see the Wailers last year, and I was totally jealous.
Ah, poor misguided fire'n'brimstone. Glad I'm not a Southern Baptist!
OH man! That would have been really cool!
Back to the subject, before this gets shutdown!
In Job then, does it mean that Satan is just waiting for the right time?
The Book of Job also records Satan going before God to ask permission to torture Job. Even the devil is not outside God's sovereignty (for those who can tell, yes, I happen to be a Calvinist).
Satan could come up before God because he was a fallen archangel, cast out of heaven for fomenting war. Man doesn't need all that much help to do evil, mankind does fine on their own. "The devil made me do it!" used to be a catch-phrase. The Devil gets blamed for a lot of things he didn't do.
You started with the book of Job. Satan indeed got God's permission to strike at Job. But his so-called friends did a good job of tormenting the poor man on their own, did they not? Job began to wish he had never been born, not from what he was going through, but because his friends keep falsely accusing him. He knew he hadn't done anything and it was just a trial. People can be cruel.
Satan is a tempter, not one who forces people to do anything. People will do anything on their own.
Oh, and I don't think he looks like this, either: http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l1...Kane/Devil.gif