Moira - I have to go now...laters :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Moira
Regards,
Lote.
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Moira - I have to go now...laters :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Moira
Regards,
Lote.
Ok if you are very anxious about Angelina you could start a poll :lol: . I am sure the majority of men in this site will agree with you. As for me, being a woman, i haven't reflected so much on Angelina's beauty. That would be ehhhm not normal ;). I'm joking. I know that you take Jolie only as an example. But you know it's better not to raise beauty standards from Hollywood movies. I believe that most of the people in cinema and tv don't look like THAT in their every day lives (too much make up and Photoshop) plus we don't know how they looked like prior to plastic surgeries and external improvements ;). And since you and i don't share the same acquaintances (normal everyday people) we could never have a decent conversation on this subject ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lote-Tree
I would say that beauty doesn't have to come from the physical or mental attributes of a person. It doesn't have to come from a person at all. For example, how often have you read a book or seen a movie and thought, "That was beautiful"? But as what I might call beautiful you might call weird, I guess that goes back to the beginning - beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder. Yes, I think I'll go with that. On a personal level, my Mom loves gardens, and by loves I mean it's practically her life; whereas with me, I like it. Not love. I love to listen to music, to unravel its melodies and pull out meaning from it but to my Mom, music is noise and she is only now beginning to see what I see in music. So yes, I'd argue that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Well...some silly git wrote a blog entry on physical beauty a while ago. Let me think....Quote:
Originally Posted by Lote-Tree
A person's physical appearance does not create kindness, intelligence, integrity, compassion or any other of the host of qualities that might be considered to be desirable, so perhaps we could say in that sense that "beauty is skin deep" and that there are other qualities besides the physical that make a person "beautiful". Physical beauty can attract unwanted attention to a person, make them feel uncomfortable. People make assumptions sometimes about pretty people...that they are vain, or not very bright, or they must be very superficial and only think about their looks.
Do you really want me to give a serious response to that? Are you playing Devil's Advocate? I don't think you meant it seriously...and if you did I would be disappointed. I personally find such remarks really rather contemptous: "Oh, you only whine on about inner beauty because your so ugly". Nobody has said that to me, and if they did I would be very offended.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lote-Tree
To a degree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lote-Tree
Are we all to agree on Jolie's beauty? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lote-Tree
There are some qualities that could be considered univerally attractive such as healthy skin and hair and symetical features. Then you get into measuring beauty by some sort of "yardstick" .... This does not take into account cultural differences and personal preferences. Some standard of what is beauty could be considered objective, while others come from a subjective viewpoint. Some men prefer blondes and some prefer brunettes. Some women will prefer tall, dark and handsome and some women will like a blond surfer looking type of guy. Those are personal and subjective feelings on physical beauty, aren't they?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lote-Tree
Ok, I may be in the minority here, but I have never been particularly enamoured with Angelina Jolie - I dont like the way her cheeks seem so sunken in. So in this way beauty is definitely a preference, based on what we percieve and would have to be in the eye of the beholder as a result.
Of course, societally we are given an image and told that it is beautiful, the majority of the time its nonsense. Maralyn (sp?) Monroe was thought to be the pinnacle of beauty, but now there are some who may consider her to be carrying a few extra pounds. Then we had the lanky supermodels who look like they have thrown up everything they've ate and were told for a woman to be beautiful she should look like that. More recently it has been the more curvaceous figure that has been "in" and we have been told Beyonce & Jennifer Lopez were beautiful. The more current fascination appears to be with the "Jessicas" as in Simpson, Alba and Biehl.
I dont pay attention to it I know what I find attractive (fuller face, typically brunnette & I really like green eyes) I dont need the media to tell me what I should find attractive.
While I was typing this I was reminded of the song Perfect 10 by The Beautiful South, a part of which I'm gonna post here:
**He is of course referring to dress size here not age.Quote:
Shes a perfect 10, but she wears a 12
Baby keep a little 2 for me
She could be sweet 16**, bustin out at the seams
Its still love in the first degree
When hes at my gate, with a big fat 8
You wanna see the smile on my face
And even at my door, with a poor poor 4
There aint no man can replace
cause we love our love,
In different sizes
I love her body, especially the lies
Time takes its toll, but not on the eyes
Promise me this, take me tonight
definitely in the Eye of the Beholder.
As in the song,
"If you want to be happy for the rest of your life,
Just make an ugly woman your wife."
Beauty is in my opinion connected with social factors. At an early age we were told what is beautiful and what not. Not only parents, but also teachers, friends and television shown us what is considered to be beautiful. If someone has a statement about something and after that someone else confirms it and after that, more people agree, it is likely that YOU (maybe unconsciously) also start to share their view.
A very interesting topic and I'm quite surprised that no one seems to have mentioned the evolutionary/biological side of the matter. I'm not sure how much truth there is to it, but in the mass media this theory is quite established. There are a lot of documentaries about how subconscious factors influence our way of regarding someone as desirable or not. For example, some scientist say that the smell is a key factor in this decision. Others say that attributes such as wide hips make women attractive to men because it is interpreted as a sign of fertility. Then there's the whole deal about mixing different genes and so on.
But I don't really understand how this interacts with the social factors influencing our perception of beauty. If the information of an ideal partner was really tied to or genes, how does it come that this picture has changed from time to time? My hypothesis is that physical attractiveness our beauty is very tightly related to health. We regard someone as beautiful if he or she looks healthy. Nowadays, in the time of overconsumption and obesity, we find someone beautiful who is slender and athletic. A few centuries back, in the times of famines and starvation, everyone looked up to those few who were not undernourished and had a little more mass.
But as many others have said: There is something beyond the physique that creates that sense of beauty in us. The way someone talks, the voice, the ways someone behaves, his/her facial expression and gestures. Some people just radiate and that is what I find beautiful.
I think there is a close relationship between beauty and Robert Pirsig's Quality ;)
Beauty is a matter of opinion. To find beauty in a homely person is something very few can do. Or have you never been to high school? where your life is made miserable just for what you look like.
And all of us brunettes with green eyes applaud you for not choosing the typical blonde hair blue eyed girls that hollywood tell men to!Quote:
Originally Posted by kilted exile
I like that song. Should be made the anthem for real women! What ever happened to the beautiful south anyway?Quote:
While I was typing this I was reminded of the song Perfect 10 by The Beautiful South, a part of which I'm gonna post here:
**He is of course referring to dress size here not age.
Note: Some one could be the most beautiful woman one the outside but be the ugliest on the inside. A woman who is not that attractive my have men falol at her feet for her beautiful personality. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Do you remenber high school? Most of my friends have beautiful, fun personalites yet they are so daily slighted by what they look like their self-steem is precariusly low and most of them practitce some form of self harm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh
Beauty may be in the eye of the beholder, but only if the beholder is blind...(or doesn't live in the real world)
I'm not sure, I think their album after Quench (which contains not only Perfect 10, but the anthem for the overlooked everywhere "I may be ugly") kinda bombed.which is a shame. However they were never the same after they released the CD containing "Marry me" & "Rotterdam" - They also of course had the song 36D which is also a fun look at the idea of hollywood beauty, part of which again I'll include here (nah, infact I'll include the whole thing 'cos its just too good)Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh
Quote:
Close your legs, open your mind
Leave those compliments well behind
Dig a little deeper into yourself
And you may find
Come over here just sit right down
Neednt comb your hair, neednt pout or frown
I hear youve turned our young men
Into dribbling clowns
36d so what (d) so what
Is that all that youve got?
36d so what (d) so what
Is that all that youve got?
Make their day and go ahead
Remove your clothes lie on their bed
Just a last gasp chance or an outside bet
To the easily led
And before you do just what you do
Here one thought for you to chew
The men who run the business that you sell
They screw you too
36d so what (d) so what
Is that all that youve got?
36d so what (d) so what
Is that all that youve got?
Youre just another 365 night stand
But youre so handy, youre so handy
You cheapen and you nasty every woman in this land
But youre so handy, youre so handy
Your pictures hanging pretty on the squaddies walls
Youre stevens, andys, youre ians, youre pauls
Your bodys through of fondly in the rugby mauls
But you want more
36d so what (d) so what
Is that all that youve got?
36d so what (d) so what
Is that all that youve got?
36d so what (d) so what
Is that all that youve got?
36d so what (d) so what
Is that all that youve got?
He was trying to save his job
He was, he was trying to save his job.
I remember High School extremely well, particularly the fact that nearly all the popular girls in my year ended up with the popular guys who wound up in general being deadbeatsQuote:
Originally Posted by Bakiryu
Scientific research has found that on the whole we find "symmetric" faces or faces that have a degree of symmetry - Beautiful.Quote:
Originally Posted by moira
Symmetry is also found in nature - even at fundamental levels of subatomic particles. So we have evolved to appreciate symmetry becuase we have evolved from it. Faces that show degree of symmetry also an indicator of "healthy" genes and thus we find symmetic faces attractive.
LOL :-) Perhaps I shall ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by manolia
And Good Thing Too! :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by manolia
That is I find hard to believe. Women are more scruniser of women Beauty than men! :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by manolia
I like to believe that Beauty has it's own standard. As long as a face has a degree of symmetry I believe majority will find that face attractive.Quote:
Originally Posted by manolia
Perhaps in the future when we have uploaded ourselves into our computer hard-drives - then photoshoping whould be liking putting your make up - then we can all be beautiful :-) I am just joking but I understand what you say.Quote:
Originally Posted by manolia
Hey as a Computer Programmer - we have created Instant Messengers - we can have a decent conversation now without ever meeting :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by manolia
But think of internet - here we don't see each other's faces - thus the Beauty Barrier is gone. Only thing we have is how we type our words on our messages and how we express ourselves with words. Internet has level the field between the Body Beautiful and the Body Ugly :-) That is a good thing don't you think?
But science says we find symmetric faces Beautiful? So Beauty is not in the Eye of the Beholder - But Beauty is in Symmetry :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by andave
Perhaps their jealous of their Beauty? We tend to hate things we can't have?Quote:
Originally Posted by kathf
I am nothing but the Devil's Advocate :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by kathf
Just kiddin :-)
Not a serious person Kath. Don't take anything I say seriously :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by kathf
Life is serious enough. Anymore it would be very tragic and sad :-(
Perhaps there is some truth to that? We tend hate things we can't have? Envy and jelousy is part and parcel of humanity? Why would the "ugly" sisters hate Cinderalla? :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by kathf
She has been voted the most Beautiful women. But I shall conduct a poll here just to find out :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by kathf
That is the self-verification mechanism :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by kathf
But what we agree on is the Beauty that verifies itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by kathf
http://www.dailycollage.com/collages...ie-800x600.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by kilted exile
just to balance it out :-)
I believe that we have evolved to find symmetric faces Beautiful regardless of social factors.Quote:
Originally Posted by "Elly Blue
I have. It is Symmetry.Quote:
Originally Posted by tuesday
Yes and that is what I mean by an objective measurement. Symmetry is one such measurement. Others are more subjective.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lote-Tree
I'm not surprised because most of the studies conducted fall into evolutionary psychology, or another social science discipline. I can't assume that every member here is interested or up to date with every new thing in social sciences ...although I am sure there are some. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuesday
While I agree that some traits that we appreciate as "beauty" may be hardwired, to me it doesn't fully explain cultural differences in perceiving what is beautiful.
It removes preconceptions that we may form based on a person's appearance whether that person is plain or attractive. Bias goes both way in appearance, I think. So yes, it is a good thing. Thank you Mr Computer Programmer , sir. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Lote-Tree
Who is "we"? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lote-Tree
Okay! :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lote-Tree
Sometimes I wonder if the sisters were really all that ugly. It seems to me that they could have been quite attractive, and still been jealous. Cinderella was supposed to posses not only "outer" beauty but inner as well. No matter how good some people think they are, there is always somebody better, right? That is why I think it is better to cultivate that which is unique in me, and not simply be about my appearance. Otherwise, life becomes one big insecure rat race, no?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lote-Tree
Jealousy is indeed part and parcel of humanity, and not only "ugly" people suffer from it. People get jealous over all sorts of things. I get jealous of my best friend because she has a child. It isn't something I am proud of, but there it is.
Still doesnt do much for me, especially if compared to for example Neve Campbell who may in fact be more beautiful baldQuote:
Originally Posted by Lote-Tree