It would be good to do so. But do we count the frame chapter or we start from the moment when Ethan starts narrating? I think it would be better if we start with the frame or left it for the end.Quote:
Originally Posted by Janine
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It would be good to do so. But do we count the frame chapter or we start from the moment when Ethan starts narrating? I think it would be better if we start with the frame or left it for the end.Quote:
Originally Posted by Janine
;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Janine
I've only read the introduction so far, I'm a bit busy at the moment preparing for Easter (my favourite holiday :nod:).
Would your telling us why you didn't like it make details of the plot explicit, papaya ? :)
:bawling: scher It wont let me through the link. Its sayingQuote:
Originally Posted by Scheherazade
HELP:eek2:Quote:
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Maybe you've been banned.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightshade
yeah, something came up before I could expound further. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Schokokeks
I have to disagree with several members, I thought the plot was predictable and kinda slow.
The interesting part was that everybody in a way got what they wanted. Ethan and Mattie stayed together and Zeena got something to do (I'm choosing to believe her sickness resulted more from her mind then anything else.).
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Originally Posted by Madhuri
The feelings that were mostly unsaid were, I think, in keeping with Ethan's reticent nature. it was the author's way of letting us in to Ethan's world, of making us get to know him and understand him.
i was going to say "that nutter woman who's got nothing wrong with her except she needs her head examined".. but you've put it much more eloquently :)Quote:
Originally Posted by papayahed
i don't think the plot is predictable...
first, i thought Ethans smash up was an accident.
then towards the end, I thought they'd die, which is obviously nonsense seeing as the narrator meets Ethan later.... :idea: but i thought Mattie would die
I liked the ending! Otherwise, it would have made a boring read.
I'm probably going to start reading this weekend. Sorry I'm behind. Hope people will still discuss this with me.
Yes, I think so too. I think that if it wasn't the confusing ending the book would be average and quite common as plot line. I thought firstly they both are going to die, I even didn't thought that it's impossible because of the beginning of the book. After that I thought that Mattie will die, but I was wrong again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pensive
I have some problems with understanding Zeena character, somehow she seems a bit unreal to me, though i am sure there are people like her. I think there is something deeper in her, I think the author doesn't show everything about her. I feel as there are some blank moments in her character, I feel her a bit incomplete.
Alexei, Believe me when I say I knew a woman just like Zeena. It was a very sad case. As with Ethan, the husband was sweet and traped and he gave her everything - he very much catered to her illness. She was delicate and yet she ruled his life in a passive-aggressive manor. I think I read this book in highschool and felt as you do - is Zeena a possible realistic person? But then, later, I did know this family with the very real mother just like Zeena. She even had the sunken thin appearance from her imagined illnesses. She doted on illness, ate poorly, and complained endlessly. Her family tried to help her, but they could not. She, also, doted on other people's illnesses and problems, especially deaths and cancer. She finally committed suicide by overdose. Her daughter said she just did not want to live anymore. Obviously the woman suffered greatly from a mental disorder. Hypochondria is a real certifiable mental illness. It may seem that Zeena is purely evil, but actually she is quite pathetic and selfish. In those days, mental illness and the recognition of it was quite a unheard of subject. The whole idea was still in the closet. People did not talk about that, unless they just called a person 'mad' or 'insane'. So, I think the things we don't see about Zeena, we cannot see in this text, only imagine. She lives in a way we cannot fully relate to, in a world all to herself. She is really a very sad creature. Her illness makes her selfish and wanting of attention and making all people around her quite miserable. It is a very sad case. How can Ethan leave such a needy person? He has reasoned that out in his mind. He is too good a person to do so. Actually, Alexei, you are very sensitive - in mentally ill people there actually are "blank moments" in their character or mind. I know because I have studied about this, having a relative with a mental condition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexei
I think the ending of this story is great and very ironic, and definitely makes the book valid and a classic! I wonder if we should discuss the ending blatantly or specifically yet, when people on this thread are still reading the book. I think we need to repect that. If they know the ending now, it may spoil the book for them. I have not finished reading it, myself, but I do know the ending, having read the book before. I know Virgil has not read it and he will want to be surprised at the ending. If possible I don't think we should give away the ending. We could talk about the characters and how we percieve them or take chapter by chapter. We can easily start with the frame chapter.
I read it first time as a full adult and thought it was magnificent, but the 10th graders I taught it to did not get into it. It's a deep and serious work and I suppose requires a serious reader.
byquist - this is absolutely true, in my opinion. I also read it when young and did not really 'get it' or 'get into it'. Now I think the novel is wonderful and the end incredible. It does require a serious reader to understand the novel.Quote:
Originally Posted by byquist
I thought on the frame chapter and I was quite amazed how different it is as atmosphere of the other part of the book. Firstly I thought it is slower, but actually the more impressing difference is the feeling of mystery. In the beginning of the book there is some idea that everything round Ethan's life is like taboo - no one speak of it (with this introduction I have expected something different from such kind of love story ;) ) and after that when Ethan becomes the narrator the hole veil of mystery is just gone, everything become clear and almost everything seems visible (at least the facts needed for the progress of plot line).
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Originally Posted by Alexei
The narrator does not change, from start to finish it is always the engineer on work assignment who tells the story. At the end of the introductory chapter he states: It was that night that I found the clue to Ethan Frome, and began to put together this vision of his story... (then immediately followed by chapter One).
It is just that in the introductory chapter the narrator is more involved, he is part of the scene, there is first person narration. By contrast, from chapters One to Nine, the same narrator is completely detached; he tells Ethan Frome's story as he imagines the way it would have transpired and at the same time tries to tell it from Ethan's point of view.
Janine, That Hamlet quote is interesting and I need to study it further. Lit. critics make a great deal about Conrad's mention of a nutshell in a diff. way in "Heart of Darkness." C's emphasis is not on the msg. from within, but the glow of the moonlight on the haze that is outside the nut. Meaning is derived from "outside" the nut, not inside. I wonder now if Conrad was creatively doing a take-off or departure from that Hamlet quote. Byquist