homeschooling

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Originally Posted by andave_ya

wait, unschooled? what does that mean?

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There are lots of definitions that stem from John Holt's coined term of "unschooling". I'll paste one below. For more information, see
The Teenage Liberation Handbook
www.sandradodd.com/unschooling
www.unschooling.com

Mary Griffith's definition

Mary Griffith is the author of The Unschooling Handbook

What is Unschooling? from the Texas Unschoolers site

From a longer Q&A article on getting into college by Alison McKee, here is Alison's clarification on what unschooling is and isn't:

Q: What is unschooling?
A: Unschooling is a term that the late John Holt coined in the late ‘70's to describe learning that is based on a child's interests and needs. Unschooling does not begin with a parent's notion of what is important to learn and then turn the choices of how to learn the content over to a child. Rather, it begins with the child's natural curiosity and expands from there. Unschooling is not "instruction free" learning. If a child wants to learn to read, an unschooling parent may offer instruction by providing help with decoding, reading to the child, and giving the child ample opportunity to encounter words. If the child is uninterested in these supports, the parent backs off until the child asks for help. The most important thing about the unschooling process is that the child is in charge of the learning, not the adult. Unschoolers often do no traditional school work, yet they do learn traditional subject matter. They learn it as a natural extension of exploring their own personal interests.

Looks really interesting genoveva! I would be curious to see how different families choose to structure it.

I and Toni are homeschooled. June this year, I'll be in college and I'm still going to be homeschooled. It is my choice (and my mom's) because of certain situations that compel me to go homeschool; one major reason is time. You are definitely more in control of your time and the pace in your studies but that doesn't go showing that everyone is qualified to go homeschooling. In my university for instance, they make you take exams to see if you're really fit and eligible to be a homeschool student - meaning you have to be DISCIPLINED and FOCUSED with your studies but if you're not, you don't qualify.

Homeschooling, though having a lot of advantages, also has its setbacks. As some LitNet members said, some students are anti-social or to put it less harshly, not very much in tune with the outside world. Some tend to be more shy, more introverted, but I guess it depends on the way their parents supported them through the whole process. Parental guidance really is important. (although I don't think becoming a full-time teacher will do the trick ;) The school gives out modules for the student and once a week, they go to the school for the weekly exams - at least that is how it is in my country for grade school and high school).

Thanks Uncle Virg for telling us that we're smart. ;) :p

Homeschooling seems very interesting, I have never heard of it before. Here in Germany, it would be illegal, as every child under 16 (I think) is lawfully required to frequent some kind of school (there are more types of schools over here than just middle and high school, including some schools providing vocational education, and schools for children with special needs of whatever kind, among which students and their parents may choose).
I'm curious to know how this is done:

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Originally Posted by Lain

The school gives out modules for the student and once a week, they go to the school for the weekly exams - at least that is how it is in my country for grade school and high school

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Do homeschoolers also take the senior final exams at high school to qualify for university entrance ?

Unschooling depends rather heavily on the likes and dislikes of the child, doesn't it? No, my family actually homeschools. We have a full curriculum. I'm in tenth grade this year, and we did/are doing Algebra II, biology, full English (Literature, Grammar, Composition, Spelling and Poetry), geography, Arabic. and two general education courses in Speech Fundamentals and Intro to Art.

Lain(d'ye mind if I call you that?:) ): anti-social? That depends. I'm sure you know that there are homeschool support groups that get together and go on field trips and do stuff together. Then there's church, if you are of that persuasion; you make a lot of friends at church.

Anyways, I'm glad there are a couple of fellow homeschoolers on the Lit-Net.

I'm not denying that homeschooling is given a shabby name and face now. When most people think of homeschoolers, they think that they're just utilizing a way to stay out of public school. That is not always the case. As rae said, some homeschooling parents decide to homeschool because they don't like the possibility that their children might get hooked on drugs or other nasty stuff. Mind, my words are possibility not definite. --I've yet to meet an unpleasant lit-netter, you are all fantastic.:D

Schokokeks: homeschooling (at least in California where I live) is schooling your kids at home. My Mother teaches me and my Dad is considered the principal. What's nice about homeschooling is that you can structure it according to how you please. If the child doesn't understand something, you can take as long as you need to teach it to him. Case in point: me. Last school year I did Algebra I and it took me the entire year, summer, and partway into this school year to finish it but with the major grace of God I finished!
Other benefits include: you can get up at what time you think best.
You can work as fast as you like.
You can take emergency time off according to your needs.
You are free to go on vacation if you want to.

If I can answer any questions I will. :)

I had never heard of homeschooling before I heard of it on this forum (in other occasions as well), and Schoko's post reminded me that it must be because it's illegal (I suppose it is in most countries in Europe).

I have never given much thought about it but since you ask, it seems a very very weird thing to me, probably because it is completely alien to my mentality. I think I'd be against it. I do think a kid needs to socialise in the school kind of way, with all its crap included (I am even quite against people not sending their children to preschool or whatever it's called). It's a way to form a personality. Someone here mentioned he/she is glad of being homeschooled because of how schools are, with drugs and bullying etc. Well I don't know in which state schools are in the USA (all I know about it makes me think really really bad about it), but still I think it's a part of real life and someone needs to experience it - I don't mean experiencing drugs (!) but experience what a 'difficult' environment can be like (and if your parents are homeschooling you, I think they'd carefully choose a good school for you if they were to send you to school). I've grown up in one of the worst areas of my city and went to school there and I'm proud of it, and I'm not into drugs or shooting people in the street ;)
Another reason is that personally I can't learn anything out of a class environment - even face-to-face lessons are difficult for me, there is not enough discipline (I am taking some lessons with a guy who is teaching me his native language, just for fun, and if he wasn't super motivated it'd be difficult to keep me concentrated). Of course that is highly personal and being out of class might work for other people.
Still, this homeschooling thing seems to me like a form of repression (American style? :blush: From outside it might seem so...). And I am definitely not a social person like those you see in American tv series about high schools (tons of them spring to mind), but I can't imagine people not going to school. Especially at a later age, I can sort of picture it for small children, but not for teenagers.
I know my opinion is somehow biased by the fact, as I said, that this is so unusual for me (I'd have the same reaction if you said that you spend all your holidays on Mars or Jupiter, or actually that would even make more sense to me :blush:), but count me as against that.

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Originally Posted by andave_ya

My Mother teaches me and my Dad is considered the principal. What's nice about homeschooling is that you can structure it according to how you please. If the child doesn't understand something, you can take as long as you need to teach it to him. Case in point: me. Last school year I did Algebra I and it took me the entire year, summer, and partway into this school year to finish it but with the major grace of God I finished!
Other benefits include: you can get up at what time you think best.
You can work as fast as you like.
You can take emergency time off according to your needs.
You are free to go on vacation if you want to.

If I can answer any questions I will. :)

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You reminded me of another aspect here: discipline/structure. I think that another reason for real schools is that you learn to face real life issues like having to get up stupidly early, have to take an overcrowded bus, face unpleasant schoolmates and unpleasnt teachers, the possibility of unfair situations, the pressure of working for a long time without holidays, of having to do things you detest... all very unpleasant but all very typical of real life.
Don't you think you'd have a harsher impact with the world by being homeschooled?

hey, no problem, everyone's entitled to his own opinion. But there are other ways to form a personality than in guarding against certain aspects of public schooling. Seriously, I never attended a public school as a student my entire life, but my personality has been formed by the company I keep, my faith, and the books I read. But like I said(I'm paraphrasing), going to public school doesn't necessarily mean you will get into drugs, it's just a possibility. The same for homeschooling. Just because you homeschool doesn't mean you haven't formed a personality.

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Originally Posted by andave_ya

I'm sure you know that there are homeschool support groups that get together and go on field trips and do stuff together. Then there's church, if you are of that persuasion; you make a lot of friends at church.

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That's not referred to me but I thought I'd comment - I obviously didnt know about these support groups since I barely knew about homeschooling itself, but I consider church somehow a more 'dangerous' thing than school - surely this won't be appreciated on this forum and is totally off-topic, but I wouldn't like it if someone's only (or almost only) social environment would be the church. I never made friends at church since I only met hypocrites, but I made my best friends at school, we've been through literally anything together in this past 11 years, and I wouldn't change then for anything.

Geez, you're even making me happy about the 13 years of hating maths and having to take it anyway (no way to skip maths for the whole of your education in our school system). At least I know what it's like to go through that kind of suffering ;)
(oops, math, as I'm talking with Americans, maths is British apparently)

Anyways, I'm glad there are a couple of fellow homeschoolers on the Lit-Net.

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As rae said, some homeschooling parents decide to homeschool because they don't like the possibility that their children might get hooked on drugs or other nasty stuff. Mind, my words are possibility not definite.

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That's what I call overprotection/repression. And lack of faith in your children, and in the education you're giving to them, if you think they're not clever enough to stay away from crap.

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--I've yet to meet an unpleasant lit-netter, you are all fantastic.:D

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Well, you've just made my acquaintance :D

:) same time post.

Discipline/structure is one of the most important things you learn, no matter what the school. My teacher is also my Mom, but just because that is the case it doesn't mean she lets me sleep till ten everyday. I have homework. Responsibilities. Chores. Places to go and things to see.

But this aspect is probably where most homeschoolers fall short. Not all homeschoolers are interested in disciplining themselves to learn their studies. My Mom has always said that this is the fault of the parents/teachers. Discipline is vital but only as much as the parents enforce it because children need guiding and won't discipline themselves.

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Originally Posted by andave_ya

hey, no problem, everyone's entitled to his own opinion. But there are other ways to form a personality than in guarding against certain aspects of public schooling. Seriously, I never attended a public school as a student my entire life, but my personality has been formed by the company I keep, my faith, and the books I read. But like I said(I'm paraphrasing), going to public school doesn't necessarily mean you will get into drugs, it's just a possibility. The same for homeschooling. Just because you homeschool doesn't mean you haven't formed a personality.

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Sure, well I was expressing myself to broadly but I didn't mean to generalise. Still, I think someone needs not only to be sociable with other kids, but also to experience difficult environments to have a wider view of the world. And sorry I'm an atheist by choice (my family is religious) so the argument about faith just makes me worried instead of convincing me ;) (with all due respect for your beliefs of course).
Possibilites, yeah. There are tons of people without a personality even in school, believe me (well sure you do ;)) and they're even the ones more likely to be into drugs out of peer pressure, but some people do learn through those experiences. It's part of growing up, there are people who are into light drugs as teenagers cos they think it's cool, then grow up and get bored of it. It's just the silliness of youth (not talking of heavy drugs of course!).
As I said, at least one of the schools I went to was terrible, there were only 2 or 3 people in my class who vaguely cared about learning something... yet that gave me wonderful cultural basis (somehow! :lol: I guess I had mostly good teachers) and made me see a world that is different from that of 'intellectuals' (I mean, people who are into culture in any way, even if their job is a plumber ;))

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Originally Posted by andave_ya

:) same time post.

Discipline/structure is one of the most important things you learn, no matter what the school. My teacher is also my Mom, but just because that is the case it doesn't mean she lets me sleep till ten everyday. I have homework. Responsibilities. Chores. Places to go and things to see.

But this aspect is probably where most homeschoolers fall short. Not all homeschoolers are interested in disciplining themselves to learn their studies. My Mom has always said that this is the fault of the parents/teachers. Discipline is vital but only as much as the parents enforce it because children need guiding and won't discipline themselves.

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Yeah, we'll be same-time-posting for a while because I'm getting carried away with ramblings and I like to contradict :D
But don't you find it strange to have your mum teaching you? Or even... I assume you're a teenager, don't teenagers like to be away from their parents as much as possible? :D :p

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Originally Posted by genoveva

Q: What is unschooling?
A: Unschooling is a term that the late John Holt coined in the late ‘70's to describe learning that is based on a child's interests and needs. Unschooling does not begin with a parent's notion of what is important to learn and then turn the choices of how to learn the content over to a child. Rather, it begins with the child's natural curiosity and expands from there. Unschooling is not "instruction free" learning. If a child wants to learn to read, an unschooling parent may offer instruction by providing help with decoding, reading to the child, and giving the child ample opportunity to encounter words. If the child is uninterested in these supports, the parent backs off until the child asks for help. The most important thing about the unschooling process is that the child is in charge of the learning, not the adult. Unschoolers often do no traditional school work, yet they do learn traditional subject matter. They learn it as a natural extension of exploring their own personal interests.

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Isn't that dangerous? I wouldn't be able to do 2+2 with that system, because I'd never ask someone to teach me that :D Though I'd probably be fluent in 10 languages (assuming someone would teach me those :lol:) instead of wasting time with chemistry or physics... :crash: :lol:

Yes, church can be ...repressive, I guess, is the word...if it is the only environment. I'm not saying anything against church because I am a Christian but there is more than church for socialization. I'm taking some college courses so I do have a slight knowledge of what gives. I will say it took some getting used to. I've never been to Europe so I don't know what the schools are like here, but it's odd! They curse and swear their faces blue without realizing what they're saying. And they talk about...improper stuff...:blush: ...without caring! !!!!!! But I think that's partly my fault. I'm not really a people person -I stick to old British novels-so I'm used to rather reticent British gentlemen.

I'm afraid I didn't quite follow on the maths. I can't skip it for even one year!

As for the not trusting your kids,
In elementary school especially, a lot of kids just don't have the proper grounding to be able to resist peer pressure. One has to be really solid in who they are. Also, you get influenced by your surroundings and there is no way to deny it.
Kids just don't listen, either. I have a little friend who didn't know who Christopher Columbus was!

And I still don't think you're an unpleasant lit-netter. :D Pleased to make your acquaintance.:)

No, my Mom's cool. Another benefit of homeschooling socialization is that you learn how to socialize with adults. My parents are really cool, even though I'm a teenager.

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Originally Posted by Weisinheimer

I was home schooled for most of my education. It has it's ups and downs. I'm naturally a quiet/shy person. I don't think it has much to do with my being home schooled, but maybe. I definitely know plenty of homeschoolers who are extremely outgoing.
Academically, it definitely has it's benefits.

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Like knowing when to spell it's and when its :lol:
Sorry, I know I'm pedantic but that was toooooo funny :blush:

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Originally Posted by dramasnot6

I have always wanted to try homeschooling. I am self taught in most things I do love to learn about, like philosophy, psychology and up until a year ago literature. I certainly have learned some good non-academic skills in school like how to deal with beauracracies, how to work with authority figures you know are wrong most of the time,how to cope with the stupidity of busy work and many more which I am sure I will find useful in "the real world".

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Precisely...

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But in terms of education as well as socializing I think homeschooling is certainly as good as any other schooling, and probably much better in some aspects.

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Such as?

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Originally Posted by Weisinheimer

I was home schooled for most of my education. It has it's ups and downs. I'm naturally a quiet/shy person. I don't think it has much to do with my being home schooled, but maybe. I definitely know plenty of homeschoolers who are extremely outgoing.

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That can work either way of course, but for example in my teens I was rather quiet and shy and being forced into a social place like school did help me. You don't have that in English but in my language there is a formal way to address people, such as teachers, and you start doing that in middle school, at the age of 11... I thought I would never be able to do that, but of course it just became natural. Just one little thing of life that I was forced to adapt to...
Actually, but that was my problem, from the age of 14/15 to 19, school was the only social activity I had, since I was a rather reclusive person. Without that I'd probably be writing from a mental asylum now :lol:

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Yes, church can be ...repressive, I guess, is the word...if it is the only environment. I'm not saying anything against church because I am a Christian but there is more than church for socialization.

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It's not (just) about it being repressive, but well it gives you its point of view... which is just one point of view... I know this is my experience, but the only people I've met in church were hypocrites.

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They curse and swear their faces blue without realizing what they're saying. And they talk about...improper stuff...:blush: ...without caring! !!!!!!

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Yes, and that's life.
I suppose you only read 18-century novels, you have never watched TV, you have never spent a few hours with someone who swears?

Question: is homeschooling commonly related to being religious?

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As for the not trusting your kids,
In elementary school especially, a lot of kids just don't have the proper grounding to be able to resist peer pressure. One has to be really solid in who they are. Also, you get influenced by your surroundings and there is no way to deny it.
Kids just don't listen, either. I have a little friend who didn't know who Christopher Columbus was!

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Yes, true, but again, that's life. That's why I said it seems repressive to me... you need to make your own mistakes and learn from that... It's like trying to preserve someone by keeping them living in a bubble, but the bubble will have to break sooner or later I guess...

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Originally Posted by Koa

Like knowing when to spell it's and when its :lol:
Sorry, I know I'm pedantic but that was toooooo funny :blush:

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Yeah, that is funny.:lol: How in the world did I do it twice in one post?:blush:

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Originally Posted by Schokokeks

Do homeschoolers also take the senior final exams at high school to qualify for university entrance ?

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Yes, ofcourse. As with the usual process of normal schooling, it is also done with the homeschool program. If you don't pass, you repeat a year, but that doesn't happen very often, thank goodness.

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Originally Posted by andave_ya

Lain(d'ye mind if I call you that?:)

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Nah. LitNetters call me that. :)

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anti-social? That depends. I'm sure you know that there are homeschool support groups that get together and go on field trips and do stuff together. Then there's church, if you are of that persuasion; you make a lot of friends at church.

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Yeah I was too harsh on "anti-social". Yes, we do that too, field trips, get-togethers, orientation. All I was saying is that homeschoolers tend to be more introverted and shy.

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Anyways, I'm glad there are a couple of fellow homeschoolers on the Lit-Net.

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:nod: I thought Toni and I were the only ones.

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I'm not denying that homeschooling is given a shabby name and face now. When most people think of homeschoolers, they think that they're just utilizing a way to stay out of public school. That is not always the case. As rae said, some homeschooling parents decide to homeschool because they don't like the possibility that their children might get hooked on drugs or other nasty stuff.

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Nice take on homeschooling. Never thought of that.

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Mind, my words are possibility not definite. --I've yet to meet an unpleasant lit-netter, you are all fantastic.:D

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Wow. :blush: Do I count?

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Originally Posted by rae_of_light

I am being homeschooled, and with how the schools are turning out(drugs, etc.), I cannot imagine ever going to school. The only thing I miss out on is the friends. I have lived in the same town my entire life, and I don't have any friends there, because I never had the chance to meet any! I have friends, I am not unsocial, but just not in my town!!
~Rae~

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Then, how are you going to cope with people in your adult life? To me, I can't imagine living a life without school. Already, I have been lucky enough unlike 40% of the girls in my country who don't have opportunity to educate themselves there. I don't plan on wasting this wonderful opportunity, and hope to make the best of it.

I think "learning in school" ought to be compulsary. I don't think I am learned enough to be very sure, but it's just an opinion hudging by my own experience. In Biology, Chemistry, Physics, and especially Mathematics; what teachers have taught me; my parents could never have (though both of them are quite educated), but in the school it is different. There are "specialized" fields. You have time to discuss things with most people of your own age, and even learn to tolerate those whose opinions are totally different from yours. Most of all, there is a sense of competition which is, I believe, quite good for academics.

And it has already been mentioned, there are things (especially in engineering and medical fields) which you can't learn without being schooled.