The Passion

I myself dabble in nonbelief from time to time, so I see what you're saying. But the film is very powerful purely on a humanistic level. It actually doesn't push the divinity of Christ on you, because the point of the film wasn't about the divinity of Christ. It was about human cruelty. The things that they portrayed Christ going through (whether or not he was actually the son of God) are horrific. It was actually quite easy for me to watch it objectively. When I came out of the film, I had more of a feeling of "Wow, Gibson just captured a perfect picture of the evils of human cruelty", rather than "Wow, Jesus MUST have been the son of God! Why else would he have gone through all that". Either way its the most moving film I've seen in several years. I highly recomend you see it, even with your spiritual revelations.

Atheism takes as much faith as Christianity...
IWilKikU or whatever it is... I admit, I talked to one of my freinds, actually he is like the asst. youth pastor, and he said the curtain was torn, but like you said it seemed insignificant. And the catechism, if read thoroughly, seems very... un-biblical. I dont think catholics are going to hell like the asst youth pastor I spoke of, but praying to Mary for salvation? Thats no longer christianity. But most people dont do that. I feel that there are enough differences between what I believe and what our local catholic church teaches that I should differentiate myself from them. I have alot of catholic freinds, most of whom dont _really_ go to mass... they just... go to mass. I also have had teachers in the past who were catholic and now tries to show catholics the problems in the catechism, especially the newest edition. Let me emphasize I have nothing against catholics, just a few of their beliefs. And I agree with the new decision that removing feeding tubes is immoral, but some of the issues on fertility treatments are... a little over the top.
At leat its not mormonism... although I have a bunch of mormon freinds. And they too claim they are Christians... So, but I did not mean to say Catholics are not Christians, is just very different from a non-denominational church like mine.

Oh, and I was depressed from the cruelty, but had I not had the reassurance of His glorious decision to die for our sins I would have been more so.

Actually, Biblical account, the Catechism, and what most Catholics believe are often so unrelated that it's nearly impossible to understand the Church from the outside. LMAO see I'm still even capitalizing "Church." It's a lot more like Judaism than Protestantism in its cultural aspects, because a large percentage of people who identify themselves as Catholic either don't go to Mass or at least don't believe most of what the Catechism says is standard Catholic belief; it's more like a social group or "club" they're born into. For instance, most American Catholics aren't against birth control or divorce. Most don't believe the Eucharist is literally transformed into Jesus. And a great deal don't believe in the intercession of saints or the divinity of Mary. They're just as divided on the issues of abortion, the death penalty, and homosexuality (though I shudder to put them in the same sentence) as the rest of the country. And around here, anyway, while Catholicism may seem like one of the most conservative forms of Christianity, most Catholics are a lot more liberal than other Christians.

In the end, the Bible has so many possible forms of interpretation, that saying "Christianity" is often simply too vague a description of one's beliefs. There are a myriad of different sects, all putting the weight of importance on different and sometimes contradictory aspects of the New Testament. So, saying Protestant versus Catholic really doesn't begin to describe the many broad distinctions (oxymoron alert) within the religion itself.

That said, I understand what you were trying to say, RH. :D Just pointing out the specifics from the point of view of someone with first-hand experience of Catholicism.

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Originally posted by IWilKikU
The film didn't make me depressed, it made me reflect. I was solumn when I came out of the theatre, but no one should be depressed about Christ's sacrifice. What he did for us was a beautiful thing, if you buy into it. I think we should rejoice in his decission rather than mourn about it.

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Agree...and it's better to see it from the perspective of humanity rather from the religious point of view. Since I live in a country where Moslems are the majority, not many people saw this movie. They thought this was just a movie for Christian..It's too bad coz the movie could really show people that religions can be used as justification to violate humanity values.

That's an excellent point, Sub. I hadn't thought of that. (And I'm willing to bet neither did Mel.) But the mark of a great work is if it takes on a life of its own and holds meaning beyond what the creator planned. So who knows, maybe Mel created his masterpiece after all. I'll remember that when I see it. Thanks :D

And btw, good luck with those wings. ;) :D

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Originally posted by random_hero
Atheism takes as much faith as Christianity...

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Err, no, it doesn't. That's the point, you see.

Actually, I agree with RH. Atheism is the absence of a belief in god, but it is also the presence of the belief that there is definitely no god. No matter what someone believes in, whether it be that there is a god or that there isn't one, it takes faith to believe that your way is the right way, because there's no way to prove it. That's the difference between Atheism and Agnositicism; Agnostics say there may be a god, or there may not be, but that it's pointless to choose sides because there's no way to know the truth either way.

well put em, i was just trying to come up with a way to say the same thing.....

oh, my stepmom is agnostic which i never understood until just now, whoo-hoo, ok thanks em.

No prob. :D *doffs bowler*

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Originally posted by emily655321
Actually, I agree with RH. Atheism is the absence of a belief in god, but it is also the presence of the belief that there is definitely no god. No matter what someone believes in, whether it be that there is a god or that there isn't one, it takes faith to believe that your way is the right way, because there's no way to prove it.

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Not necessarily. I don't think it requires faith to believe that something doesn't exist. It just doesn't. Just as you know that you'll post in this foum in a given moment, you'll know that there is no god, if you're an atheist. You don't have to prove that something doesn't exist if its presence doesn't affect in any way your reality. For example, no one needs to prove that smurfs don't exist just because they don't believe in them.
It's different if you believe in something that doesn't manifest to the human perception or that if it does, it's very hard to perceive it. In this case, you require faith in order to keep your belief.

I'm on the side of those who say atheism requires faith... Infact I've never dared to call myself an atheist cos I'm not like going around screaming that I'm sure there's no God... As I said I'm in a phase of 'refusal', but that's coming from a moderate agnosticism pemeated with a sense of guilt...
But atheism is certainty... like a believer firmly believes in God, an atheist is sure that God doesnt exist... And it takes faith to believe in anything.

I'm agnostic/pagan ... :p I believe in a higher power that will never be explained, but highly personal to me. That's why I usually am not in this forum. :D

I'm not often around here either... but sometimes I try to have look, also to maybe open up my mind a bit.