Significance of the title: Heart of Darkness

Whew! OK, back to the book.

Was anyone struck by the similarity between the death of Fresleven in the novel and the real death of Captain Cook on the big island of Hawaii a few years earlier?

Sancho, You have alot to say and that's good. You put up six posts where one or maybe two were neccasary. Thats bad. It's pretty distracting, because by the time I get a chance to talk, the last six posts I'm thinking of are all you. There's something in the rules anouncement about monopolizing a thread. Pleeeeeaasse don't do it :).

That being said, that was a great example you gave concerning Conrad's prose. Even among other classic authors (much less modern) of fiction its hard to find one that I can enjoy both for depth and aesthetics.

I'm not familiar with Captain Cook's death. Care to elaborate?

I am about halfway through the book. Although it is a short novel, I am having difficulty getting involved in the story. I am not certain whether I was just not in the mood for this type of story or if I am having difficulty grasping the language. Perhaps a little of both.

In regards to the use of the N-word. (I can't even say it or write it), I think one has to consider the time the book was written as well as how the word pertains to the story, regardless if one finds it offensive. No matter what a writer writes, there will be something in there to be offensive to someone in the world. Isn't the purpose of a novel to cause some sort of emotions? If the author has acheived feeling or purpose in the story, they have offered something you may not have otherwise encountered.

A relative of a relative once used the word while in conversation with me. I was so shocked, I was rendered speachless. That is all I think about now when I think of this person and I can't think of anything positive anymore.

Thanks Lara.

And a big salute to you Field Marshall Kik. I’d’ve never taken you for a regulator; always figured you for more of a “live and let live” sort of fellow. I say we leave the moderating to the moderators lest we further stratify the society of us peons on the posting boards.

Uhhhh, that being said, I did get a tad carried away yesterday with my posts on your thread. That bit about the dog struck a raw nerve. So, with regards to my distracting posts, please accept my most humble apology.

I was going to throw in a bit about limiting my future posts to banal one-liners concerning cup sizes, but I decided to leave it out. Whoops – there it went anyway.:)

I'd be happy to elaborate:
Cook and Fresleven both died in a scuffle with the natives over a minor transaction. Some would say simply a misunderstanding. Both were deified by the natives. Both enjoyed relatively good relations with the natives, however, both were berating a village chief for some perceived wrong at the time of their deaths. Though Cook probably wasn’t “the gentlest and quietest man on two legs,” as Fresleven was described, he did have a deep respect for the Native Hawaiians. Both were knifed between the shoulder blades by someone in the crowd. Both bodies were mutilated – Cook’s by the Hawaiians Fresleven’s by the elements.

That’s were the two stories split. Conrad’s natives headed for the hills fearing the consequences, but the Hawaiians proudly absconded with the body only to return to beach each day to taunt the sailors. (It sort of went down hill from there) They did eventually return Cook’s thigh to the ship.

Great thread. Part of story on dog and n-word- I visted my cousin a few years ago (his father was the one who named the dog) I brought it up to my cousin(my age) he looked embarrased and denied that was his name. I was just reminiscing and not being judgemental, but interesting reaction. His father had died two years before our conversation. But when his father was alive, my uncle would praise blacks whom his wife worked with. I was at a social event where there were a number of black families. It was obvious that my uncle and aunt were friends with and quite congenial with them. I suspect the dog was named (you note quite incitefully ) as sort of a joke, when it was much more tolerable - about 50 years ago. I don't think my Uncle was a racist, at least in his day, or even today, but reflecting the tenor of the times. That is not, of course, justifing racism in any way. I guess my main problem is reading literature from any earlier period (or culture) from the sole viewpoint of the present age. This undoubtly would aggravate feminists (and others who would like to see improvements in the present culture). The values of older texts such as character development, themes, moral dilemmas, etc. are still quite appropriate in the present day. Even if it disturbs readers by using language which is offensive to them.

Nigger is only a word - and I have written it deliberately.

Language is anathema to censorship - it is as right for NWA to appropriate it as a Ku Klux Klan member.

The perception comes from the situation, rather than the word.

If Hitler whispers sweet nothings in your ear, are you turned on or repulsed?

Oh of course it is only a word. "Only a word" with incomprehensible amounts of baggage.

And for Ice Cube and everyone else in Niggas With Attitude to use it is far more appropriate than for the KKK.

The KKK hates black people and has since its inception in the 19th century. NWA on the other hand is composed of black people.

I think its a great shame that we create words that are so exclusive to certain groups, whether through reclamation or through original design. Language should always be inclusive. It is a communication system after all.

Well, you're welcome to come here to Philly and use the "n" word liberally if you'd like.

I don't recommend it, however. That is, unless you happen to be around bigots. I don't believe that that word with its history has the right to belong to anyone outside of the black race. As you don't seem to know what I'm talking about, from a personal standpoint, you really can't know how the word affects. So I suggest you keep that in mind when you try to make it a generally used/publicly owned word.

And I say this with full awareness that everyone was born with the same number of melanocytes, and only our lysosomes' activity ultimately define the color of our skin.

My presence on this forum is beginning to embarass me.

I don't think that anyone is condoning the use of "the n word", (getting tired of typing that). I think what people are saying is, if its wrong for a white person to call someone nigger, why is it ok for a black person to call someone nigger?

I live in small town rural VA. There are practically NO blacks where I live. The handful of blacks that do live in my town, work at the resturaunt that I do. I've gotten to the point with them where I can say "the n word" without offending anyone. If the word is going to be acceptible within context (ie, when NWA says it), it should be a context of companionship and relationship rather than racial exclusivity. I don't think it should be acceptible for a black to call another black that he doesn't know a nigger or nigga, whatever, they're the same word to me. Nigger is a DEROGITORY term. I call friends of mine derogitory terms all the time. But if I called some complete stranger an ******* (regardless of the color of his skin), he would be pissed. I don't think it should be a crime to say/print the word, but I think it shouldn't be thrown around as lightly as the black comunity tends to do.

And amuse, PLEEEEEAASE never be embarassed of being here. As far as I know, no one is racist here, and everyone is fairly tolarant of other dissimilarities (ie, religeous, gender, ect...).

I just realized that on this forum no one is either black or white to me. Your all different shades of orange :D.

:D thanks, i feel better.

and funnily enough, a light apricotish-peach is my fave color - not too far off the mark from orange!

Food for thought. I heard a black woman (older) say in our conversation that somebody was a "crazy nigger." We both knew exactly what she meant. He was outside the bounds of black society as well as white.
I don't care for rappers using the word (untasteful) but they can use it if they want if it can be shown to serve some artistic value. The same argument used to be used about the f-word, but now its commonplace in mass publications (The New Yorker) I have no problem with that. However I notice that the c-word for women is still apparently not allowed, unless spoken by a character to make a point. I would object if it were used otherwise - untasteful again. Probably for the same reason - a put down to show superiority by the speaker. Blacks can use the n-word to each other, (and do) because "we're all in the same boat."