Aleksandr Pushkin

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jon1jt

Pushkin's no Dostoevsky.

---

They're totally different, but I know for a fact that Dostoevsky himself (as well as pretty much every Russian writer) considered Pushkin's talents far more advanced than his. Anyway, Dostoevsky was a novelist and Pushkin was a poet and dramatist, so it's like comparing T.S. Eliot to James Joyce (except in that example the novelist influenced the poet/dramatist rather than vice-versa). And besides, you can't make a statement like that until you read Pushkin in Russian. And without Pushkin there wouldn't have been Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Turgenev, (possibly) Gogol, Chekhov, Lermontov... Russian lit as we know it would have been totally different.

I put Pushkin and Dostoevsky at the same level really, as when you get to that level of literary merit you can't say who's better. I love Dostoevsky because his mind is totally twisted, just as mine is, but Pushkin's technical skill (roughly 400 sonnets, all with the strange rhyme scheme I mentioned above and all of which flow beautifully? Do you have an idea how astonishing that is?!) as well as storytelling ability are dazzling.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Idril

I don't think anyone is trying to say that he is. They have completely different writing styles, it's like comparing apples and oranges. I haven't read a great deal of his poetry, I tend to stick to his short stories but he has a such lyrical quality, even in translation that I just love, I can't even imagine how much more pronouced that quality in his native language. He can say so much with so few words, he can paint such a clear picture of people and events without pages and pages of description, they may be considered short stories yet they can span the same scope as a 300+ page book because there's nothing superfluous in the story telling at all and unlike so many great Russian writers, he never goes off on tangents. ;)

---

Doesn't go off on tangents?! You haven't read Eugene Onegin, he goes off ALL the time in that one, but the tangents are the best part sometimes (like the massive 5-page-long creepy foot fetish tangent :D ). It's also not just a random tangent with no purpose but a great literary technique as it gives us the persona of an unreliable narrator who is not only totally biased towards his characters but is sometimes even incompetent as a narrator, as he often goes off and completely forgets the story discussing his foot fetish or which wines he likes most or what ballets he's been to the theater to see lately, getting so wrapped up in tangents that the story happens without him telling us anything. Another cool subtle thing is the recurring motif of waiting for/catching up with the character: he spends some time discussing Eugene's wardrobe and how "he three hours, at the least, / in front of mirrors spent," and by the time he's finished his character has already left, and he says, "we'd better hurry to the ball / whither headlong in a hack coach / already my Onegin has sped off." There's some very interesting narrative quirks in there, and when you think about it this style of narration became very popular in the West in the 20th century, but Pushkin was already doing it nearly 100 years before.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by superunknown

Doesn't go off on tangents?! You haven't read Eugene Onegin, he goes off ALL the time in that one, but the tangents are the best part sometimes (like the massive 5-page-long creepy foot fetish tangent :D ).

---

I have read it and I really didn't think of those little asides as going off on tangents in the same way that Dostoevsky goes off on tangents, he (Dosteovsky) is the King of tangents. And I honestly have no memory of a 5 page long foot fetish diatribe and you'd think that would be something I'd remember. ;) :lol: I do remember him mentioning feet every now and again but I don't remember 5 pages of it. I will admit there was more of that sort of thing in Eugene Onegin than in his other writings but I really didn't think it was that distracting, they didn't completely take you out of the story the way they so often can.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by superunknown

And without Pushkin there wouldn't have been Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Turgenev, (possibly) Gogol, Chekhov, Lermontov... Russian lit as we know it would have been totally different.

---

Dostoevsky's famous quote is: "We have all issued out of Gogol's Cloak."
If Pushkin have had that influence, Fyodor and Tolstoy would be poets and not novelists.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by superunknown

I put Pushkin and Dostoevsky at the same level really, as when you get to that level of literary merit you can't say who's better. I love Dostoevsky because his mind is totally twisted, just as mine is, but Pushkin's technical skill (roughly 400 sonnets, all with the strange rhyme scheme I mentioned above and all of which flow beautifully? Do you have an idea how astonishing that is?!) as well as storytelling ability are dazzling.

---

:lol: :lol: Yes, Pushkin really is great, The Poor Knight is one of my favorite poems at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bazarov

Dostoevsky's famous quote is: "We have all issued out of Gogol's Cloak."
If Pushkin have had that influence, Fyodor and Tolstoy would be poets and not novelists.

---

Ummm.... no. By that logic, Eliot, who was massively influenced by Joyce (he compared Ulysses to one of Einstein's scientific discoveries, saying that like all scientists would have to learn Einstein's theories and put them to use to advance, so writers would have to learn Joyce and use his discoveries), could not possibly have been a poet and must by sheer necessity have been a novelist. Same goes for Samuel Beckett and just about every post-Joyce non-novelist (of which there are many). That's just stupid.

Sure, Dostoevsky might have said that. But here's something else he also said (and a very famous speech it is):

"Pushkin is an extraordinary, perhaps unique, manifestation of the Russian spirit, said Gogol. I will add "and a prophetic manifestation." There is in his life, for all us Russians, something incontestably prophetic... He set down a very gallery of exquisite types drawn from the Russian people. The exquisiteness is in their truth, their positive and undeniable truth. You cannot deny them, they stand as though in stone."

http://www.artrusse.ca/Pushkin/pushkin_en.htm

I love Pushkin

VIII

Всё тот же ль он иль усмирился?
Иль корчит так же чудака?
Скажите, чем он возвратился?
Что нам представит он пока?
Чем ныне явится? Мельмотом,
Космополитом, патриотом,
Гарольдом, квакером, ханжой,
Иль маской щегольнёт иной,
Иль просто будет добрый малый,
Как вы да я, как целый свет?
По крайней мере, мой совет:
Отстать от моды обветшалой.
Довольно он морочил свет...
―Знаком он вам? ― И да и нет.

Brilliant

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Woland

I love Pushkin

VIII

Всё тот же ль он иль усмирился?
Иль корчит так же чудака?
Скажите, чем он возвратился?
Что нам представит он пока?
Чем ныне явится? Мельмотом,
Космополитом, патриотом,
Гарольдом, квакером, ханжой,
Иль маской щегольнёт иной,
Иль просто будет добрый малый,
Как вы да я, как целый свет?
По крайней мере, мой совет:
Отстать от моды обветшалой.
Довольно он морочил свет...
―Знаком он вам? ― И да и нет.

Brilliant

---

I also like Pushkin and for those who can't read this, let see what was Woland trying to say...:lol:


Is this the same man, or has he since softened?
Or does he act the same old freak?
Tell me, does he come here often?
And what character does he play this week?
What is his stage persona? Melmoth?
A cosmopolitan, a patriot,
Childe Harolde, a quaker, or a bigot?
Or does he show off a mask he has brought?
Or perhaps he is just a jolly good sport,
Like you and I, like the world, in short?
My advice is this, if he will take it,
To put aside all that worn out kit.
He has fooled the world more than we can tell..
―So you know him then? ― Ye

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bazarov

I also like Pushkin and for those who can't read this, let see what was Woland trying to say...:lol:

---

Thanks for the translation! :)

The English translation is OK, but can't even come close to being as beautiful as the original. Having said thsi, I actually has always liked Lermontov more than Pushkin.

I don't where had you find those poems, but can you look up for The Poor Knight? Thank you.

I feel so sad reading all the discussion about Puschkin in this thread. I am not Russian and i cant speak this language ( unfortunately for me) so i cant read his works in Russian, but i am lucky enough that all his works have been translated very good in my own language. The translation of Onegin has been made by a woman who is half Greek and half Russian so she made a wonderful job , since she knew both languages by her heart.

Why i am feeling bad? Because Dostoevsky and all the others Russian writers, who i adore and love very much, were his students! People outside Russia only know Tolstoy ( who is great by the way) , Dostoevsky and Gorky.

Turk,

Have you read Eugene Onegin either in Russian either in a good translation in your won language? If yes, then , you cant say that he is famous only because he is a pioneer.

And something else. Just my opinion, but when a writer is writting his novels in a foreign language that doesnt mean that doesnt have the nationality of his own counrty. I know a lot of Greeks artits ( and not only) who work abroad that doesnt mean that they are not Greeks. You never loose your nationality.

Evi

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Evi

And something else. Just my opinion, but when a writer is writting his novels in a foreign language that doesnt mean that doesnt have the nationality of his own counrty. I know a lot of Greeks artits ( and not only) who work abroad that doesnt mean that they are not Greeks. You never loose your nationality.

Evi

---

I agree, many Russian writers left Russia because of political situation like Nabokov, Solzhenycin, Gorky etc.

Mayakofski also lived in USA for many years, but he is Russian. I consider him as a Russian writer and not an American. I love Mayakofski ( hopefully i spell his name correct!)

Evi

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Evi

Mayakofski also lived in USA for many years, but he is Russian. I consider him as a Russian writer and not an American. I love Mayakofski ( hopefully i spell his name correct!)

Evi

---

Mayakovski:)

Bazarov,


Thanks for correcting, i always make mistakes with spelling of the names. :confused:

Evi