July/Dostoevsky Reading: 'The Brothers Karamazov'

I've heard it said both that Dostoyevsky's sympathies are mainly with Alyosha - the regligious innocent - and that they're mainly with Ivan - the intellectual for whom religioius faith no longer makes sense, but who's obviously having trouble making sense of life without religious faith. I'm interested in the degree to which this can be answered by reference to the book alone and not FD's biography. As I remember it (I just finished it two weeks ago), there's a sentence somewhere around the middle that I think makes it clear that FD himself does not give credence to religious faith, despite the highly sympathetic light in which he depicts Alyosha and father Zosima. It almost seems as if he's saying that religion can work terribly well at tricking people into having equillibrium and behaving humanely, despite its intellectual unsustainability, and without it you're in trouble.

well Alyosha is called the hero of the novel.

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Originally Posted by superunknown

Going for 50 pages a day, should be finished in 3 weeks since my edition is approximately 768 pages. We do get 2 months to read this, right? It is over 750.

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Hi Superunknown,

Since we have 12 authors chosen for this year, we will read an author/a month, I am afraid. Those who are still reading can still post and continue to discuss the book after July as the discussion threads are always open.

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Originally Posted by MikeK

you know, old ladies likely to be the most devout and likely to make such a pilgrimage.

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I agree with you partially but in the book, it is not only the old ladies who seek elders' help and guidance. Also, my question was a general one as well. Why is it that old ladies are the most devout, making such pilgrimages?

Finding the whole 'the Church/State' discussion a little confusing along with ecclesiastical courts debate. Any historic relevance?

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Originally Posted by Gallantry

well Alyosha is called the hero of the novel.

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Yeah, but that's not necessarily a simple endorsement of everything he says, does and believes. It might be that Dostoyevsky is saying you can only be a hero with a certain inability to face facts.

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Originally Posted by blp

I'm interested in the degree to which this can be answered by reference to the book alone and not FD's biography.

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Originally Posted by blp

As I remember it (I just finished it two weeks ago), there's a sentence somewhere around the middle that I think makes it clear that FD himself does not give credence to religious faith, despite the highly sympathetic light in which he depicts Alyosha and father Zosima.

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Is there authorial intent? Is it relevant when criticizing the text?

If we disregard the fact that Dostoevsky was a Christian, then I suppose it is just the narrator who becomes 'sympathetic' or 'unsympathetic'.

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Originally Posted by Scheherazade

Finding the whole 'the Church/State' discussion a little confusing along with ecclesiastical courts debate. Any historic relevance?

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This is one of the three parts of this book that can be very, very confusing; along with The Grand Inquisitor chapter and The Devil chapter. I think that there are two main things to keep in mind about the church/state/ecclesiastical courts discussion that might untangle things a little bit:

One: Beware of irony on the part of Ivan when discussing his article (and maybe more importantly...irony on the part of Dostoevsky as regards Ivan in this discussion).

Two: What sets up many of the ideas that will be in contention later in the novel are not only Ivan's thoughts, but just as importantly, Zosima's penetrating responses (about Ivan).

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Originally Posted by blp

I've heard it said both that Dostoyevsky's sympathies are mainly with Alyosha - the regligious innocent - and that they're mainly with Ivan - the intellectual for whom religioius faith no longer makes sense, but who's obviously having trouble making sense of life without religious faith. I'm interested in the degree to which this can be answered by reference to the book alone and not FD's biography. As I remember it (I just finished it two weeks ago), there's a sentence somewhere around the middle that I think makes it clear that FD himself does not give credence to religious faith, despite the highly sympathetic light in which he depicts Alyosha and father Zosima. It almost seems as if he's saying that religion can work terribly well at tricking people into having equillibrium and behaving humanely, despite its intellectual unsustainability, and without it you're in trouble.

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FD gives no credence to religious faith. Religious faith is the dogmatic faith, the mechanical faith, which is embodied in the character of Ivan. In this sense, Ivan is so deeply, even radically, religious. Alyosha is different. Alyosha's faith surpasses religiosity. Unlike Ivan and Father Zossima, he goes out of the monastery and the monastic. (Really, Ivan lives in a "monastery"). Alyosha is overcome not by the Christianity's Christ, but by the Spirit of Christ himself, which is absurd, brutal and extreme in its acts of Love, and Alyosha owes Dmitri much for this gift.

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Originally Posted by blp

Yeah, but that's not necessarily a simple endorsement of everything he says, does and believes. It might be that Dostoyevsky is saying you can only be a hero with a certain inability to face facts.

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When does it say Alyosha lacks an ability to see facts?

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Originally Posted by Gallantry

When does it say Alyosha lacks an ability to see facts?

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Exactly right, Gallantry. Dostoevsky goes out of his way to call Alyosha a "realist" and describe him as someone who can "face facts". He has many digressions in the book about this (realism vs. idealism; miracles producing faith vs. faith producing miracles, etc...).

It should be noted that in mid-late nineteenth-century Russia "realist" was a charged word. Many commentators that I've read have pointed out that the prevailing style was for writers to call those sympathetic with their ideas "realists". To be a "realist" meant to be right. Dostoevsky adhered to the contemporary style. He went out of his way to make Alyosha a "realist" and not a "dreamer". This is what much of Book 7 is about.

I have asked for my copy from the library, I hope to get it by today evening. And seeing the volume of the book (some 1000 pages) I am not sure when would I be able to finish it, but I hope this time bound reading help increase my speed...

i have started reading it im about 350 pages through..just started two days ago so it is raining today so hopefully i can get to may 500-600..it might increase your speed madhuri but do not read so fast so that you miss things..you do not want to miss anything about this book :nod: :D

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Originally Posted by literaturerocks

i have started reading it im about 350 pages through..just started two days ago so it is raining today so hopefully i can get to may 500-600..it might increase your speed madhuri but do not read so fast so that you miss things..you do not want to miss anything about this book :nod: :D

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Oh yes, I dont want to miss anything, but going by the fact that I am slow reader I was thinking if I would be able to finish it on time. I hope I do, without missing anything. Time bound reading might help, as otherwise I have this tendency to think I have all the time to read and may not finish it at all..he he he :D

I didnt find the book in the library, I think i'll have to visit the bookstore.

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Originally Posted by Madhuri

..Ididnt find the book in the library, I think i'll have to visit the bookstore.

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It is available for reading on the site if you wish :)
http://www.online-literature.com/dos...ers_karamazov/

Hey thanks, Logos. I didnt know that books were also available online for reading.

Well there are hundreds of authors and thousands of stories, novels, and poems to be read here on this site, just check out the Author Index, click on a name and you will see what is available of theirs to be read :)

http://www.online-literature.com/author_index.php

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