Meaning of Life.

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If you want to continue repeating this negation-based theory of life, have at it since its a free country,

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Never did I intend this to come off as negative. I wanted to share this thought with individuals. I realize that our reason for being is the pursuit of happiness. Which is the meaning of my life, the pursuit of happiness.

....however when you look at what I wrote in a broad philosophical since yes it is true.

Im sorry if you miss interpreted what I wanted to say. I honestly take it as an insult if you think my purpose for this thread is to spread negation-based theories on life.

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Originally Posted by byquist

I can only say that I guarantee (and would put money on it) that if you fall in love tomorrow, you will diametrically change your opinion, and immediately discover that life has ultra-meaning, and your greatest wish would be to "stop time."

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That is just a romantic way of giving meaning to life.

Indeed, I've wished that the time will stop and that the night will never be over; but, since, nothing lasts forever and since death is inevitable, ultimately, when I die, it doesn’t matter whether I was in love or not. This proposition, to which I subscribe, is predicated on the belief that my death is 'ultimate' and not my life.

However, I agree that, in a narrower sense by disregarding death, love is one of the things which makes life meaningful. I'll also add happiness, truth and freedom to the list of things which make life worth living. And I'm sure they are all interlinked, in the sense that true love can set me free and bring happiness.

byquist, your empathy and insight, i applaud

hyacinth, if I may,
OUR FEAR OF DEATH may have resulted in the birth of a plethora of foolsome strories to help us come to terms with it. but in truth no ones really been fooled, everyone knows that death is inescapable and just because we dont live forever does not translate by any reasonable means to the belief that life is meaningless and/or futile.

and sharp12, a thought,
Why do we need meaning in life or to find a purpose for us living? Your statement that there is no meaning in life makes no sense, serves no purpose and has about as much truth as the statement that the meaning of life IS TO LIVE. Why think on such futile lines where you wouldn’t make any more progress than a three-year-old child would trying its hand at calculus. The truth is that you FEEL that there is no meaning TO life because you just cant prove it either way.

and by the way i really find it heartbreaking that you attribute the suicide of great minds to this most dishonourable averment. i hold them in much higher esteem.raphien

an interesting thread...

anyway...

sharp may have a point, i think. i mean, think about it. we're born. we do stuff we want to and stuff we need to do. and then what happens? we reproduce. then we die, and, putting all religious stuff aside, we rot away. and our offspring are in this world to do the same thing.

so i come to this conclusion. whatever your life is, to you and to other people, depends on you just the same. if in your opinion your life is meaningless, then meaningless it will be. but if you choose to be optimistic about life's meaning, then you will find that life is indeed beautiful.

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Originally Posted by raphien

I am an advocate in Bombay and I have to face the harsh realities of life pretty often. I just wish to put my view across the table that, if nothing is meaningful then no one is meaningful and if that is the case, why do we feel a heart wrenching depthless black horror and sadness when we lose someone close to us? Or why do we feel at all. We find ourselves in a whirlwind mix of particles constantly in danger of collision and yes, sometimes there appears to be no meaning to it all. But it is not for what we receive in this life but what we are to others that provide the much-desired understanding of our purpose in living. The simplest people are the happiest because they are always surrounded by people who love them and who need them. In giving you shall and do receive.
( I don’t mean to preach but i'd like to reach)

sincerely, an optimistic and not so adolescent idealist.

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Welcome to lit net Raphien. We seem to be in need of another person with real life experience to show how positive and meaningful life can be. I like what you say here and it fits with my view of life. Life is neither a utopia or a dystopia. It's what you make of it. And helping others to make the world a little better is certainly meaningful and in my opinion ingrained in humanity. I remember as a young person (I'm getting old now) the feeling and expressing the same sort of melancholy and futility that is expressed by others here. At some point it either burns out or is fixed in your soul. As Amanda expresses it, ultimately it depends on you.

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Originally Posted by raphien

just because we dont live forever does not translate by any reasonable means to the belief that life is meaningless and/or futile.

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Sure does, buddy.

The first disappointment that death brings is that I'll not continue to enjoy the fruits of my toil forever; somebody else will, after I die.

The second and the greatest disappointment that death brings is that one day, when life is completely wiped out from the face of the earth, there would be nobody to benefit form the product of our (humans) labour. There would be nobody to even talk about all that we did and created. So everything we are doing is futile and meaningless, if one day, ultimately, it's all going to come to naught.

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Originally Posted by Hyacinth Girl

therefore we have the responsibility to create meaning for ourselves.

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Makes sense, if you can igonore death.

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Originally Posted by raphien

Why do we need meaning in life or to find a purpose for us living?

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Originally Posted by Virgil

Welcome to lit net Raphien. We seem to be in need of another person with real life experience to show how positive and meaningful life can be.

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So, this is what is called selective appreciation?

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Originally Posted by raphien

hyacinth, if I may,
OUR FEAR OF DEATH may have resulted in the birth of a plethora of foolsome strories to help us come to terms with it. but in truth no ones really been fooled, everyone knows that death is inescapable and just because we dont live forever does not translate by any reasonable means to the belief that life is meaningless and/or futile.
raphien

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Raphien, welcome to the forum!

I think I may have to clarify what I said a bit.
I personally agree that death does not necessarily render life meaningless. My point is that outside of human perception, on a cosmic scale our lives are intrinsically meaningless. it is human emotion and perception that has the capacity to create meaning out of existence. For some, if they are not around forever to see the effect of what they do, life and existence has no real purpose or meaning (or any purpose outside the animal instinct to eat, sleep, reproduce, live), and so they deny even the possibility of meaning - they refuse to create such for themselves. Others choose to create a construct of meaning in existence even with the inevitability of death looming because they recognise the mind and spirit's need and ability to do so.
Ultimately, it should not matter that we die, or that humanity dies. Human perception created meaning, experienced it, and that in iself is an end.

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and by the way i really find it heartbreaking that you attribute the suicide of great minds to this most dishonourable averment. i hold them in much higher esteem.raphien

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It is the truth. Im not undermining their death in anyway. Take it easy.

I think the most valid points have been made by Hyacinth Girl and amanda. ...Raphien you seem to mis-interpret what everyone is writing. Including me. Please look at this thread un-biasedly.

Hmmm, there are a lot of different opinions here. You could almost say that the meaning of life is in the eye of the beholder :nod:

I must acknowledge, that Hyacinth has made a very valid and appealing point. I would, indeed, love to embrace her point of view, because it can radically alter my perception of life for the better; but only if, I can rationally convince myself that it makes more sense than my point of view. However, to do so, I might need some help, as I'm just a common chimp trying to be a human. And, if Hyacinth will kindly do me this favour, I will be obliged, probably, forever.

Let me clarify a point, first,

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Originally Posted by Hyacinth Girl

For some, if they are not around forever to see the effect of what they do, life and existence has no real purpose or meaning…

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Actually, they aren’t worried about not being around forever to see the effect of what they do, as much as, they are worried about there not being anyone (humans, animals or aliens) to benefit from all that they have done and created. This was the keynote of the statement:

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Originally Posted by me

…everything we are doing is futile and meaningless, if one day, ultimately, it's all going to come to naught.

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You acknowledge that outside of human perception there is no meaning to life …

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Originally Posted by Hyacinth Girl

My point is that outside of human perception, on a cosmic scale our lives are intrinsically meaningless.

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...and you suggest that since humans have the need and the ability to create meaning for life, they must do so.

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Originally Posted by Hyacinth Girl

…(some humans) recognise the mind and spirit's need and ability to (create their own meaning of life).

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Are you saying that since we are already here, it is better to fool ourselves by giving an illusory meaning to our lives because we have no other choice?

It seems, what you are saying is, “There is, in reality, no meaning to life; but one can alawys create a illusory meaning of life for oneself."

I would, indeed, be grateful, if those of you who think that there is meaning to life, would kindly tell me what, in your opinion, is the meaning of life.

sHaRp12,

Did not intend any vehemence and I assumed it was to spur a tad of debate, which is bueno. Your transparency is appreciated.

caesar,

If said viewpoint is "just a romantic way of giving meaning to life," thanks, I'll unashamedly and unapologetically stick with romance and life. (Is unapologetically spelled right?) Said path of reasoning can often require more courage, chutzpa and effort than accepting the standard model. If you want to define the "ultimate" as a characteristic of the birth-growth-maturity-decay-death syndrome, that's a perfect right. "Aye madam, tis' common;" you'll have plenty of folks to back you up, nodding their heads in acceptance.

On the other hand, "ultimate" is a vast word, and some keep the door very wide open as to its potentials, rather than lassoeing and afixing it to an issue of mortality. Some folks might say that to equate "ultimate" with "death" is to form a misnomer. As Hamlet says to Horatio, "there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreampt of in your philosophy," not particularly complimenting the structured field of philosophy, but opening to a wider and more daring view on reality. What these "things" are that Hamlet is referring to is anybody's guess and, dare I say, God only knows. Perhaps to Hamlet it's just a feeling that life is bigger than our finite and commonly accepted definitions of it; while we may not grasp the infinite very effectively, yet there is something reprehensible about accepting the common storyline.

I envy people in whom romance prevails over reason.

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Originally Posted by caesar

Are you saying that since we are already here, it is better to fool ourselves by giving an illusory meaning to our lives because we have no other choice?

It seems, what you are saying is, “There is, in reality, no meaning to life; but one can alawys create a illusory meaning of life for oneself."

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Caesar,
I think that we have a differing view on what constitutes a "valid" meaning. You are correct in understanding that I find, in reference to the large scale, no intrinsic meaning. Intrinsic is key for me, because while it does not impose an absolute meaning with a fixed center of reference or a heirarchical scale of meaning, it does allow for the possibility of meaning - it is that possibility we reach for when we create meaning within our existence. In light of this, any meaning created by us is not illusory - there is nothing to negate our perception of meaning - in fact, meaning is in some respects limitless, as there is no intrinsic meaning with which our perception must fall into line with.

As far as having no choice, you do have a choice. You can chose not to accept the possibility of creating meaning, or "valid" meaning. I actually find it liberating in being allowed to create for myself rather than accept an imposed view of "the meaning of it all", although it is also a frightening proposition as well. :nod:

:nod: I must admit that notwithstanding my perception of life and reality, I do prefer creating my own meaning of life and I find consolation in this self-deception. However, I'm always conscious that I'm fooling myself. It's like lucid dreaming, where, the dreamer is aware that he is dreaming and he enjoys it because he is in control and can turn nightmares into beautiful dreams. In fact, there is a dream which recurs to me in which I'm falling from a great height, but I'm not scared, because I'm conscious that it’s only a dream and that nothing is going to happen to me.

:nod: I acknowledge your point that we differ in our view on what constitutes a ‘valid’ meaning.

:nod: You express your thoughts very articulately.