Heaven and hell same as in christianity and we get there via the day of judgement same as christians :DQuote:
Originally Posted by rufioag
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Heaven and hell same as in christianity and we get there via the day of judgement same as christians :DQuote:
Originally Posted by rufioag
I hope you read this all.
Urah 67 verse 2 ""He Who created Death and Life, that He may try which of you is best in deed; and He is the Exalted in Might, Oft-Forgiving;""
The one who watch deeply in this life know that this world this life this universe is bigger than to be existed only to eat and sleep and then vanish, know that its bigger than to be formed from nothing, or all came by chance, begining from atom to universe all work according rules, nothing can go out. Who made thses rules? who is the wise one who made all this? who is the one who hold the sun far from earth, that gave the moon his orbit, that designed all in this incredible thing?
Every one think of this power that made all this, feel this power.
God the almighty created all for purpose, he gave us minds to think and choose, the one who remember God and admit his existence God will remember him. The who say i am what i am because of me only, the one who forget God, God will forget him in other life, will give him what he deserve.
The common thing between all humanity is to believe or not to believe, life is not getting more knowledge not all humans have same minds, life is not making mony some is poor and some is rich, life is not getting married some can and some could not, life is not drinking and eating some have to eat some have nothing to eat. The only thing that every one have is mind, the common thing between all minds is to know God and to accept him or not, the poor the rich the intellegent the less intellegent the beutifull the less beutifull, the thing that every one have is mind to choose God or to refuse him.
God say to us why he created us: Surah 51 verse 56 "have only created Jinns and men, that they may serve Me."
Does God need us? God doesnt need any one, every man and woman on earth work for him self and her self, and in the last day every one will get according to what he gave in life.
Paradise s the what God prepaired for people who believe in him and think of him and follow his prophets and work as he ordered us. The same paradise that Noah and Abraham and Isac and Ismael and Solmon and david and Moses and Jesus and all prophets peace be upon them and all prophets talked about.
Surah 2 verse 136 "" Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Ibrahim, Isma'il, Ishaq, Ya'qub, and the Tribes, and that given to Musa and 'Isa, and that given to (all) Prophets from their Lord: we make no difference between one and another of them: and we bow to Allah (in Islam).""
Surah 3 verse 84 ""Say: "We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Ibrahim, Isma'il, Ishaq, Ya'qub, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Musa, 'Isa, and the Prophets, from their Lord: we make no distinction between one and another among them, and to Allah do we bow our will (in Islam).""
God told us by his prophets how to get to the paradise (Sura 2 " 37Then learnt Adam from his Lord words of inspiration, and his Lord turned towards him; for He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful. 38 We said: "Get ye down all from here: and if, as is sure, there comes to you guidance from Me, whosoever follows My guidance, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. [39] "But those who reject Faith and belie Our Signs, they shall be Companions of the Fire; they shall abide therein." ).
Making good deeds is the massage of all prophets:
Surah 10 verse 9 "Those who believe, and work righteousness, their Lord will guide them because of their Faith: beneath them will flow rivers in Gardens of Bliss."
Sura 11 verse 23 "But those who believe and work righteousness, and humble themselves before their Lord, they will be Companions of the Garden, to dwell therein for aye!"
Sura 13 verse 29 "For those who believe and work righteousness, is (every) blessedness, and a beautiful place of (final) return."
Sura 14 verse 23 "But those who believe and work righteousness will be admitted to Gardens beneath which rivers flow, to dwell therein for aye with the leave of their Lord. Their greeting therein will be: "Peace!" "
Sura 17 verse 9 "Verily this Qur-an doth guide to that which is most right (or stable), and giveth the glad tidings to the Believers who work deeds of righteousness, that they shall have a magnificent reward;"
Sura 18 verse 46 "Wealth and sons are allurements of the life of this world; but the things that endure, Good Deeds, are best in the sight of thy Lord, as rewards, and best as (the foundation for) hopes."
Surah 18 "106] That is their reward, Hell; because they rejected Faith, and took My Signs and My Messengers by way of jest. [107] As to those who believe and work righteous deeds, they have, for their entertainment, the Gardens of Paradise, "
Surah 7 verse 42 "But those who believe and work righteousness - no burden do We place on any soul, but that which it can bear - they will be Companions of the Garden, therein to dwell (for ever)."
Sura 4 verse 124 "If any do deeds of righteousness, - be they male or female - and have faith, they will enter Heaven, and not the least injustice will be done to them."
Surah 16 verse 97 "Whoever works righteousness, man or woman, and has Faith, verily, to him will We give a new Life, a life that is good and pure, and We will bestow on such their reward according to the best of their actions."
Acting right in this life will make life better, its the nature of human to seekf for God to like good deeds, God gave every one mind that can choose and can know. God is so mercifull, he sent to us his prophet and he showed us the right path, He told us what to do and what not to do, and making as God ordered us mean to follow him and in every thing he ordered us to do will make our bodys and souls clean and pure, earth is only a period of exam not eating and drinking (surah 2 verse 36 "Then did Satan make them slip from the (Garden), and get them out of the state (of felicity) in which they had been. We said: "Get ye down, all (ye people), with enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling place and your means of livelihood for a time.")
The who mistake God will forgive him if he repent and return to the right path (Sura 39 verse 53 "Say: "O my Servants who have transgressed against their souls! despair not of the Mercy of Allah: for Allah forgives all sins: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.")
Saying God has son or he has wife or mother or partners is is like not believeing in God, because melieving in God mean believing no one equal to him, he is the almighty, the most beutiful, UNIQUE there is nothing like him in shape and power and acts, he is the absolute in his charcters and names.
Surah 4 verse 48 "Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin most heinous indeed."
Surah 4 verse 116 "Allah forgiveth not (the sin of) joining other gods with Him; but He forgiveth whom He pleaseth other sins than this: one who joins other gods with Allah, hath strayed far, far away (from the Right)."
This is the massage of Jesus pbuh like all the massages of all prophet beginning from Adam finishing with Muhammed peace upon them all.
Surah 5 verse 72 "They do blaspheme who say: "Allah is Al-Masih the son of Maryam." But said Al-Masih: "O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah, Allah will forbid him the Garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help."
Surah 9 verse 31 "They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Al-Masih, the son of Maryam; yet they were commanded to worship but One God: there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)."
Surah 19 ""[88] They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" [89Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous! [90] As if the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin. [91] That they should invoke a son for (Allah) Most Gracious. [92] For it is not consonant with the majesty of (Allah) Most Gracious that He should beget a son. [93] Not one of the beings in the heavens and the earth but must come to (Allah) Most Gracious as a servant. [94] He does take an account of them (all), and hath numbered them (all) exactly. [95] And every one of them will come to Him singly on the Day of Judgment. [96] On those who believe and work deeds of righteousness will (Allah) Most Gracious bestow Love.""
Surah 4 verse 157 ""That they said (in boast), "We killed Al-Masih 'Isa the son of Maryam, the Messenger of Allah"; but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not.""
Surah 4 verse 171 ""O People of the Book! commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Al-Masih 'Isa the son of Maryam was (no more than) A Messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam, and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not "Trinity": desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is One God: glory be to Him: (far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.""
Surah 5 verse 116 ""And behold! Allah will say: "O 'Isa the son of Maryam! didst thou say unto men, 'Worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden. ""
And finally:
Surah 2 verse 79 ""Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: "This is from Allah," to traffic with it for a miserable price! Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby. ""
This post here is to respond the claims of Rufioag in this thread
http://www.online-literature.com/for...t=17273&page=5
The verse that the user posted cutting it from the context trying to change the main idea.
He asked this question: Who are these daughters of Allah? are they Goddesses? And then he posted the verse 53:19-20. If he continued the 3 verses after he will find the answer of his question but....
Surah 53 verse 21 What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female? 22 Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair! These are nothing but names which ye have devised, - ye and your fathers - for which Allah has sent down no authority (whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire! Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord!
As you see no such question cant be asked if any one continue the verses.
Prophet Muhammed peace be upon him sent Ali Bin Abi Taleb to destory the statue Minat. He pbuh sent Almoghera Bin Sho'ba and ABo Sofian Bin Harb to destroy Allat statue. He pbuh sent Khaled Bin Alwaleed to destory Al Uzza statue.
The story of Ubai proove that that Arabs prayed to one god begore which is Allah, God of ABraham and Moses and Jesus and all prophets peace be upon them all. After Ubai made arabs worship statues with Allah, Allah t sent his prophet Muhammed peace be upon him and destroyed all and showed the right path.
About gathering Holy Quran in one book:
The first one who gathered Holy Quran in one book was the first calipha Abo Bakr, so i dont know how the user said this phrase: The Koran was revealed to Muhammad and he transmitted it to his following who compiled it during the decades after his death.
Abo Bakr was calipha for 2 years only after prophet pbuh and he ordered companions to compile Holy Quran in one book and he preserved it, then calipha Omar preserved it and then Hafsa Hafsa (wife of prophet peace be upon him, and doughter of second calipha Omar), and book was called for that Moshaf Hafsa (Quran of Hafsa). I dont know if in english decades are only 2 YEARS.
But i see he mixed things up, because he think that Uthman is the one who compiled Holy Quran. The user said: each using different material based on the recitations of different caliphs.
If Uthman is the third Calipha and was nearlly 13 years afters prophet peace be upon him, and there were only 2 calipha before him and only one who compiled Holy Quran so how it will exist different recitations of caliphs?
Holy Quran was sent in arabic in 7 recitation (qira'at). Different tribes were using arabic language but there are words that a tribe use,that another tribe use another word instead. The Holy Quran was sent in this way to make it easy on different tribes to understand the massage. The matter is that tribes continued to use the deffernt recitations. At time of 3rd calipha Uthman he decided to COPY HOLY QURAN, and he decided to copy them using the QURAISH tongue (tribe of prophet Muhammed pbuh, and was the right tongue), becuase its the original language of Holy Quran and other reciations were to make it easy on people. He brought Mashaf Hafsa and gahtered companions and ordered them to make copies, they made 4 copies and sent a copy to the different areas in islamic world and he preserved a copy to him self, and his copy exist unlte these days in Turkey. When companions finished from writing Quran he looked at them and at Mushaf Hafsa and found no difference. What we have now is the Holy Quran in tongue of Quraish and prophet Muhammed peace be upon him, the tongue in which Holy Quran was sent.
Another thing i must say that Holy Quran wasnt preserved on papers only. It was preserved in Memory of people (there are nearlly 9 million people in islamic world now who put all holy quran in memory, word by word, and some of them know the chain of people who transfered Holy Quran from prophet untle nowadays name by name). It was preserved also in everyday life, people used return always to holy quran to take laws, lessons, worship Allah.
Holy Quran was never behind back of people, if you say a verse infront someone it wont be like he hear it for first time like other religioun does.
You asked who cllected Holy Quran? if you would like i can write names of companions and thier family and tribes. All your claims showed sorry for this, but that you dont know any thing about collecting Holy Quran, all you did is entering site which paste claims WITHOUT PROOF. You wont see them say these things in public infront muslims scholars, only hiding in sites. Next time bring your proof please, book name and page (trusted books, not books of non muslims).
About asking forgivness: the user posted a verse and tried to show that even Muhammed is full of sins. Would like to say something: if your religioun teach you you are sinfull and was born full of sins without any harm you did, and that God couldnt forgive you, and that people is bad, please dont misure it on others.
We believe every one is born without any sin, clean. Allah forgive all sins, and no one take sins of his father because God is justice, and he is mercifull, he love us, and created us and honered us. The person begin to commit sins after he become adult when he start to do bad things, but if he return to Allah and ask forgivness from a clean honest heart, then Allah will forgive him, he is MERCIFULL.
About the verse 47:19.
You dont know the method of Holy Quran. In alot of verses Allah talk to his prophet using YOU but the talk is to all islamic nation. This verse teach us to ask forgivness for our selves and for our brothers and sisters in islam. Beside prophet Muhammed peace be upon him is our example in life and we try to behave like him because he was on right path and he did right things that make us reach paradise, when Allah said to him ask forgivness, it was so the islamic nation follow him and say like him. you can go back to Al Qurtuby book in explaining the Holy Quran and you will see this matter.
Not only Muhammed peace be upon him asked forgivness, but also another prophets did, and we dont say they are sinfull, we take them as example and we say as they said, Allah gave us prophets words about how we ask Allah things, and how we ask forgivness, not storys of adultery or incest and drunk prophets who they are innocent from such things.
Would like to hear an answer about canceled added verses i posted about bible and that its not matter of translations only.
ABout Holy Quran you said there are contraddictions but i saw you didnt brought added canceled verses or contraddictions between verses, or different copies, like american copy or african or asian copies with deffernce of chapters.
I appreciate the answers Shield and Sword, You would like me to research so I look up things on the Koran and then ask you, since you seem to know quiet a bit about that as well. But I would say that you should listen to your own arguement about bring arguements from Non Christians who have something against our religion. I would like you to post references and books plus author of where you get your arguements. Maybe we will actually get somewhere in our discussion. But do not claim that I am the only one that does it becuase many of your arguements come from your own personal bias and do nothing to help your claim because its like the sunrise, Ive seen em all before.
I will get back to you on these "Canceled" verses in a deeper discussion. But like I said, the bible is over 99.5% accurate with the manuscripts with NO, NONE, ZERO, amount of the innacuracies that have significant docturinal changes and alsmost all are attributed to misspellings due to scribes.
Rufioag all my claims were from bible. if you look at my claims, or i paste verses from bible with number and version, or a christian site when i want to give an example or i ask aquestions i didnt go out from these thing. Didnt write things from history books and what they say about historical events that you find in bible or any external book, or any other thing.
But when we reply you do not listen.
Great work Shield&Sword..
rufioag, why don't you try reading som book written by muslims on this matter.I recieved a PM from another forum dealing with the same issue, I know i may not be as good as Shield&Sword talking about Islam, but one simple thing I know is that those idol were to make the people get closer to the one and only God and that was from the days of prophet Ibraham, and these things passed on to arabs as Ibraham and Ismaeel (puot) built the ka'ba in Mecca which is an arabic place.The first Arab to introduce idol worship was `Amr ibn Luhayy who changed the religion of Ibrahim and people went back to worshiping idols as i said before to draw nearer to Allah or God, and Prophet Muhammed was sent to purify the worship for ALLAH alone.
Shield&Sword, nice avatar are you living there?
Rufioag, you posted the moon things and doughters of Allah and compilation of Holy Quran with no evidence, if you go back to my posts about catholic and protestant and orthodox bibles, and verses you will see i wrote numbers and differences, i didnt talk about history of bible or any thing out of bible, talked only about Bible verses and you can check out all my previuos posts.
Thx Mariam. No i dont live there, its Mecca, wish to go one day (and must go). Insha ALLAH.
Also you Mariam must learn islam more and more, will be good for this life and other life.
I dont want to take this thread out of its topic, but I realy need some help in that, no one reachs out to help!Quote:
Thx Mariam. No i dont live there, its Mecca, wish to go one day (and must go). Insha ALLAH.
Also you Mariam must learn islam more and more, will be good for this life and other life.
Why do u have to go to a physical city? Also, I have given you answers on many of your topics but I have finally reliezed something. That no matter what evidence I site nor the attempt to clarify a subject, it does not matter because you do not believe the Bible is accurate anyways.
I do not attempt to argue the Koran becuase I do not know it, my statements were to see if what other people said were accurate because I do not know.
http://www.muslimhope.com/DaughtersOfAllah.htm
That is where I found some of the verses, you can check up on it if you like. Once again, I do not attempt to argue against Islam through the Koran becuase i do not have any knowledge of the book. I simply brought arguements of others.
About going to a phisiscal city will explain later, but its obvious if you watch T.V and see this city that its great, no one with a big golden ring and with so expensive clothes and then claim to be so poor and highest scholar, no black musques and white musques as churchs in west untlethese days. All equal infront Allah, all muslims must know this thing. But i dont have time now to go further, little bit busy these days.
Rufioag never saw such a research ,no evidence, no proof, only a pathetic way to explain things they dont understand.
(verses 53:21-22 today)
What they mean by today. The holy Quran of Othman exist untle these days and its the same book exist in hands of all muslims.
Beside they said that verses were added but without any proof, any one can say this verse was added or canceled, but we are nation of proof, bring proof and we will be happy to discuss it. Without proof it will remain baby talk. Notice that when they explain Verses of Holy Quran they dont bring proofs, no authentic book, they only talk and talk, and even a stupid can talk. Verses i posted about bible i showed you how they were canceled, and even about trinity others said that canceling the verse doesnt cancel trinity. And you can check other canceled verses. Proof.
when they explained these verses they didnt go to the verse after which explain what are these names. The verse is 53:23 "These are nothing but names which ye have devised, - ye and your fathers - for which Allah has sent down no authority (whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire! Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord!".
In site you pasted they cut verses and explain in so pathetic way. Even you once talked about cutting and pasting and claimed that i do such thing.
If you read my post above you will see that Muhammed peace be upon him destroyed these statues, and there is no existence to them. When Muhammed peace be upon him entered Mecca he destoyed all statues, and history witness on that.
Second thing, Sayings said in history books (hadeeth) some of them true and some of them is wrong. The writers of history werent hadeeth researchers, so they put what they find and the hadeeth scholars decide acording knowing the person who narraited is lier or not, one who forget or not. So every hadeeth exist in history must be checked in books of hadeeth scholars, if they are accepted or not, because historical writers write all what they get and they use words before hadeeth if they are sure about this hadeeth or not. So the one who wrote that page on net tried again in so pathetic way to approove his opinion thinking people is ignorant.
Will show what scholars said in other paste and the problems of story, will be long a little bit, but must translate first.
I wonder if some of you can ever accept the fact that you have different opinions and interpretations, and you're not going to change each other's opinions and interpretations.
Please avoid excessive copying and pasting.
Shield&Sword, just because I am as curious as a cat, could you give a brief overview of what you believe about Jesus? Who you believe he was and why. Something short, brief, and to the point, without long koran passages and refuting what others believe.
The matter is that alot of lies are said about Holy Quran and islam, as in site Rufioag put. They cut stories from context and cut chain of narraiters, and they think if they mention arabic names then its true. This thread is named Question about islam, and with knowledge Allah gave me will try as i could to clear things here,beside i learn alot of new things, i am not trying to change any one opinion, every one is responsible of him self.
About Jesus peace be upon him: i believe he is a great prophet not God or son of God and was born in a mircale made by Allah, if Allah say to thing be and it is. He wasnt crucified and didnt die yet Allah raised him to sky and will return, Allah gave him the Vangel at his life. His mother was pregnant withuot relation with man, she is one of greatest women on earth, pure, honest. And no moslim is a muslim if he refuse Jesus peace be upon him, he is like Moses and Muhammed and all other pure prophets.
This is what we believe about Jesus pbuh.