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The culture was of merely keeping your homo or bisexuality 'under wraps' so to speak. A lot of people were gay or bisexual (Walt Whitman, Oscar Wilde, Shakespeare, and maybe King James). I haven't read the book, but the culture doesn't disprove orientation.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkmage2003
If you're referring to my comments, I didn't say Fitzgeral "wrote" drunk - I said Nick the narrator's descriptions of the evening are reflective of his drinking. You'll need more persuasive evidence than what you've quoted to be convincing.Quote:
Originally Posted by obesechicken13
Well, this is the quote:Quote:
Originally Posted by obesechicken13
How you can conclude Nick is a pedophile by a comment directed at Mr McKee I am not quite sure...I would also like to point out that pedophilia and homosexuality are NOT the same thing.Quote:
Keep your hands off the lever,' snapped the elevator boy.
'I beg your pardon,' said Mr McKee with dignity, 'I didn't know I was touching it.'
I also don't think a dancing banana is the object of Nick's romantic or sexual interests. If you want to say you think Nick is gay, you could just state "Nick is meant to like other men." That works better than references to fruit, dancing or otherwise.
i had thought this when i read the novel, i must admit. the main reasons being:
as others have said 'the elevator sequence'. why include that he had seen the man in his underwear? and he had also said that he left the party at 12 and then we next see him at a train station at 4am... all that is said in the mean time is that he was in the bedroom with a nearly naked man, and an 'artistic' type at that.
that he seems to regard women as simply forms of companions, or something that he should have as it is expected, such as the wealth in the book
he didnt actually like jordan, exept, as i said above, for the company. there is a statement in the book when Jordan explained the Gatsby/Daisy history and Nick states something like ' i didnt have a sparkle in my eye, such as a Daisy or a Gatsby, someone to hold close, so i turned to the woman sitting beside me and hugged her close to me.
also, he fell out of love with the girl 'back west' simply as he was physically not attracted to her 'i envisioned that moustache of sweat that would form everytime we would play tennis'
...just my two cents....but also women in the book are not looked very kindly apon, look at dishonest Jordan, silly ditzy daisy, and the silly girls that come to Gatsby's parties. perhaps this 'gay' persona of nicks was just the product of Fitzgeralds, either own gay inclinations, or he was simply going through a strained part of his relationship with his wife (it was known they had many) and was just not thinking kindly of us girls;)
One piece of evidence that I think suggests Nick may be gay is his 'insecurity'. Throughout the novel Nick is constantly reassuring the readers that he is an honest fellow. Perhaps Nick tells people he is honest because truly he [I]isn't honest. But rather, Nick is hiding a secret such as his homosexuality.
Another similar point is that at the beginning of the book Nick says that he always reserves judgment on people. Perhaps he reserves judgment because he himself does not want to be judged (for being gay). Just an idea...
I am wrong. :banana:
I don't think that I can say that Nick is definitely straight because he was engaged to a woman before. Some people consider sexuality to be on an continuum, just because you start out straight doesn't mean you are going to be that way for the rest of your lives. Nick is most likely hetero, but that doesn't mean that he wasn't attracted to Gatsby in some way, that he didn't think Gatsby was actually pretty great despite the ambiguous nature of his wealth and his adulterous relationship with Daisy. I think Nick had a definite crush on Gatsby.
[QUOTE=robfearon;178192]Is Nick Carraway, the narrator, gay (or bisexual)? In chapter 2, he goes down the elevator with Mr McKee:
'Come to lunch some day,' he suggested, as we groaned down the elevator.
the fact that they are "groaning" down the elevator simply means that F.Scott was using a literary device.
why must we all be so immature?
Nick is bi he totally has like this whole inuendo thing with the lever in the elebator but he is envolved with women...
dude it's not immature... why do u have to be so literal at least sum people r reading into what Fitzgerald was trying to tell us...
[QUOTE=ladysusan;516349]it's not immature tothink he's gay or bi... it's immature to think that everything Fitzgerald wrote was supposed to be interpreted literally!Quote:
Originally Posted by robfearon
I have to say it was rather shocking at first to see the title of this thread after reading through the "Nick" thread...
(I believe you are responsible for this, ZoeyZuly. ;) )
I know this is a little off topic, but I always wondered why readers label Daisy as a ditz or space case. I think she's one of the more intelligent characters in the book. There are two scenes in the book people always refer to when making this case, and I'd like to refute them:Quote:
Originally Posted by grittylit
1. The part when Daisy says she hopes her daughter grows up to be stupid.
Most people look at this part and say "what a stupid thing to wish for." However, I think Daisy is making poignant social commentary. Daisy is aware that women are play things for guys like Tom and Gatsby. Women are usually dismissed in this time period as shallow, infantile, stupid, lesser than men, etc. Daisy is aware she's in a bad marriage with a racist brute of a husband. By saying she hopes her daughter is dumb, she's essentially saying that stupid women are almost better off--at least they don't realize their agency is non-existent.
2. The part when Daisy cries because Gatsby shows her the shirts.
Again, her tears at the sight of the shirts seem irrational and ridiculous. Think again--Daisy is crying because she's realizing that a man she hasn't seen in a decade has basically been living his life for her. The shirts are inconsequential; they might have well been mothballs, potatoes, lampshades. Gatsby takes her on this whirlwind tour of the mansion, basically saying, "I've done this all for you." How exactly is a married woman supposed to respond to the dramatic weight of Gatsby's grand gesture? Daisy's remark about the shirts is the only thing she can think of on the spot to conceal her true feelings about Gatsby's return.
When you compare Daisy to Gatsby (a guy trying to recreate the past), Nick (a judgmental guy who thinks he's non-judgmental), or Tom (a racist lunatic), suddenly Daisy looks pretty smart.
(my emphasis)Quote:
Originally Posted by grittylit
I know this is a little off topic, but I always wondered why readers label Daisy as a ditz or space case. I think she's one of the more intelligent characters in the book. There are two scenes in the book people always refer to when making this case, and I'd like to refute them:
1. The part when Daisy says she hopes her daughter grows up to be stupid.
Most people look at this part and say "what a stupid thing to wish for." However, I think Daisy is making poignant social commentary. Daisy is aware that women are play things for guys like Tom and Gatsby. Women are usually dismissed in this time period as shallow, infantile, stupid, lesser than men, etc. Daisy is aware she's in a bad marriage with a racist brute of a husband. By saying she hopes her daughter is dumb, she's essentially saying that stupid women are almost better off--at least they don't realize their agency is non-existent.
2. The part when Daisy cries because Gatsby shows her the shirts.
Again, her tears at the sight of the shirts seem irrational and ridiculous. Think again--Daisy is crying because she's realizing that a man she hasn't seen in a decade has basically been living his life for her. The shirts are inconsequential; they might have well been mothballs, potatoes, lampshades. Gatsby takes her on this whirlwind tour of the mansion, basically saying, "I've done this all for you." How exactly is a married woman supposed to respond to the dramatic weight of Gatsby's grand gesture? Daisy's remark about the shirts is the only thing she can think of on the spot to conceal her true feelings about Gatsby's return.
When you compare Daisy to Gatsby (a guy trying to recreate the past), Nick (a judgmental guy who thinks he's non-judgmental), or Tom (a racist lunatic), suddenly Daisy looks pretty smart.
i totally agree, my friend actually wrote a song called perfect little fool because of daisy's comment... btw wat was i responsible 4?