Christine is confused

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Originally Posted by krmatheson

Hey I just want to point out one thing.

Is everyone forgetting about Christine Coming back to bury Erik at the end of the book. She kept her promise to Erik and I think this along with other moments in th book prove that she did love Erik. Yes She thought he was a deranged murder, but she felt sorry for him because he never knew what it was to be loved or to have anything to care about. Because of these feelings she grew fond of him, and began to love him.

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I think most people mean "man and wife" love not any other kind. And I agree she was fond of him, definitely pitied him (she didn't want to leave until he heard her sing again). Although... I don't recall her returning. The last page just says:

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Originally Posted by Leroux

The Persian saw Erik to the door of his flat and Darius helped him down to the street. A cab was waiting for him. Erik stepped in; and the Persian, who had gone back to the window, heard him say to the driver:
'Go to the Opera.'
And the cab drove off into the night.
The Persian had seen the poor, unhappy Erik for the lst time. Three weeks later, the Epoque published this advertisement:
'Erik is Dead'

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She promised to... but it never said she did.

I agree she pitied him, he had her sympathies, maybe was even fond of him. Heck, she might've considered him a friend. I don't think she quite loved him... not that much. And she might have left him to rot... It did mention they'd taken the train somewhere. She might not have heard he died, or if she did- might not have been able to go.

The book, the musical, and the movie all give a different version of Erik and his story. I found myself favoring the movie, I liked this version of Erik best and the actor (Gerard Butler) brought the character to life in a unique way.

I believe Christine loved both men, but differently. I also felt that despite Erik's distortion (and I don't mean the face, I mean the mental instability which resulted from years of ridicule and abuse) they were like soul mates. It began with him serving as kind of a "Phantom Father" when she was a child, he was more parternal - she believed him to be her Angel of Music. I believe Music was the only language he had that would allow him to feel. They had that language in common which is what he was drawn to. (The movie DVD has a second DVD with special facts on it, there is a deleted scene on it where the Phantom sings "No one would listen" and that tells what his connection with her was.) I also believe that when she became a young woman (all of 16) passion developed between them too - she was drawn to him, and he to her. Only she wasn't aware of it for a while. At the end when she returns the ring to him, it confirmed she did love him and she wanted to be with him. But, in reality she could not bear to live in the darkness with him, not the dark environment - the darkness of his Soul. (The side of him that could kill).

As for Raul, I believed that he and she loved each other too. He was portrayed as maybe a few years older than she (maybe 21 years old) and they had a common history. "Childhood sweethearts" she stated earlier. But, not so much a spoiled brat in the movie. Some arrogance as one might expect, but mostly he wanted to be her Knight in Shining Arnour or the Man on the White Horse - a Hero, always protecting and saving her. He and Erik were obviously competetive. Their love reminded me more of a Fairy Tale - like Cinderella and Prince Charming. The good life - yes, but not sure the soulful connection or the passion would be there. He simply accepted that a part of her would always remain with the Phantom. (That is why he brings the monkey to her grave at the end - symbolic of this in my opinion.) Also, at the graveside Raul sees the single long-stemmed Red Rose with the black silk ribbon and the engagement ring fastened to it. (Also symbolic - representing that the Phantom (though much older than Christine and Raul) was still alive and grieved her death too.

At the end, when Erik lets her go I believe it was because he did finally know (after she kissed him) that she did Love him, and that knowlege gave him some kind of peace and he could finally let go of his own desire to keep her and free her for her sake and he lets her go at the cost of his own devastation. (In the movie version, he made me cry more than once.)

As for the Musical, I'm not sure. I saw it years ago and only had vague understanding of the story line then. And the book is more of a horror, completely different.

Sorry - guess I wrote my own book here. (I am passionate about POTO)

Some of these first posts had me frowning. "CHRISTINE LOVED RAUL!" Please, it's Raoul. And it's spelled EriK.

No. Christine did not love Erik. She felt a certain pity for him, I will admit, but if you had any common sense you would listen to the lyrics. "...a world with no more NIGHT. And YOU always beside me...."

Even in the book she is frightened. "I no longer knew myself when I sang. I was even FRIGHTENED." Go look up frightened in the dictionary.

The movie was all about sexuality. I'm sorry. It was. The book was much more in-depth, and that is why it is my favorite. I do love the musical, but the book will always be the best version. The biggest thing, IMO, in the book, was Erik's deformity. He was a corpse, smelt of death, and basically went insane in the end of the book. Don't get me wrong, I love Erik with all my heart, but the whole no nose, no hair, cats eyes, and stick-thinness is not my type of guy.

And now I must rant about Raoul. I love Raoul with all my heart. I am a die-hard Raoul defender on POTO.com. Raoul did NOT steal Christine. Christine CHOSE Raoul. Christine is at least smart enough to know what she wants, and she chose Raoul. If she didn't want Raoul, she would have bluntly stated that she loved Erik and not him.

And the whole fop deal. Erik is more of a fop than Raoul is, at any case. What is a fop, you might ask? "Dandy, one who is vain." Yup. Sounds like Erik to me. And why did he let her go in the end? I personally believe that he knew that he could never make Christine love him like she loved Raoul.

Yes, you're disagreeing with me. My opinion with the musical is completely different with that of the book. They have two totally different Eriks, so right now I am sticking with Leroux's version.

So, now you all can hate me after I have totally disagreed with most of you. But RDraconis, you are the person I most agree with right now! Go you! *high-fives*

WOOT! *returns Wandering's high-five*


But, yeah, I kinda hate everything that turns Erik into some sort of sex-god. A large part of his 'attraction' as a character is that he's deformed, he's insane, and it's really hard to love him if you actually know him- and yet he still manages to inspire some feelings of pity from a Diva. Yeah, Christine was a good girl- but it's really hard to meet someone like that and feel anything but revulsion and pity. Christine overcame that enough to want to let him here her sing one last time and to deal with him for almost a week. That's impressive. I mean, imagine living for that long with what's basically a walking corpse.
Making it seem like he could've had any girl he wanted because despite the fact he was deformed, he was still sensual in other ways... That kills it. It just makes it seem like some stupid romance story.


However- I disagree with your calling Erik a fop. Yeah, he was concerned with his appearance- but vain generally implies that they think highly of themselves. Also, here are my dictionairy's definitions-
fop: a man who is so obsessed by fashion and vain about his own appearance that he becomes ridiculous
dandy: 1. a person or thing considered to be very good or the best in its class (informal)
2. a man who is much concerned with his elegant appearance (dated)
By those definitions, fop doesn't fit either of them- but Raoul could be described as a dandy. Which makes sense because he was a vicomte (or whatever) and he was described as still having a somewhat feminine appearance, so it'd be normal that he'd be considered a dandy. ^^;

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Originally Posted by RDraconis

However- I disagree with your calling Erik a fop. Yeah, he was concerned with his appearance- but vain generally implies that they think highly of themselves. Also, here are my dictionairy's definitions-
fop: a man who is so obsessed by fashion and vain about his own appearance that he becomes ridiculous
dandy: 1. a person or thing considered to be very good or the best in its class (informal)
2. a man who is much concerned with his elegant appearance (dated)
By those definitions, fop doesn't fit either of them- but Raoul could be described as a dandy. Which makes sense because he was a vicomte (or whatever) and he was described as still having a somewhat feminine appearance, so it'd be normal that he'd be considered a dandy. ^^;

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I disagree with you saying that Raoul is a dandy. It's not his fault he was born with a slightly feminine appearance, just like it's not my fault that I have bad eyes and brown hair. Some people might have considered him a dandy, but just because he grooms himself and wears nice clothes doesn't, IMO, make him a dandy. I know a lot of guys who comb their hair and wear nice clothes, and they're still as guy-guy as could be.

Yes, the description doesn't fit Erik EXACTLY, but it fits him more than Raoul.

that is not true! Christine DID love Raoul. Because Christine asked Raoul to say, "Say you love me..." Why would she ask a person she doesn't love to say "I love you" to her? Is she a psych?(pardon my spelling), no! She might have been loved them both, but she still loved Raoul more. I think Christine should have been with Erik too, but she just doesn't love him that much. She loves Erik, but not in the same way as Erik loves her. She admires Erik, but she doesn't want to take Erik as her husband!

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Originally Posted by emilysweety

that is not true! Christine DID love Raoul. Because Christine asked Raoul to say, "Say you love me..." Why would she ask a person she doesn't love to say "I love you" to her? Is she a psych?(pardon my spelling), no! She might have been loved them both, but she still loved Raoul more. I think Christine should have been with Erik too, but she just doesn't love him that much. She loves Erik, but not in the same way as Erik loves her. She admires Erik, but she doesn't want to take Erik as her husband!

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Uh...I was agreeing with you about that...

I'm trying to tell some less educated people that Christine loved Raoul. What's not true?

Raoul loved Christine, okay? Remember "All I ask of you"??

Raou-"No more talk of darkness, forget these wide eyed fears. I'm here, nothing can harm you, my words will warm and calm you. Let me be your freedom, let daylight dry your tears. I'm here, with you, beside you, to guard you and to guide you..."

Plus, if he didn't love Christine, why would he risk his life to save Christine in the Phantom's vault?? If the whold thing was like what you said, then the whole thing in the book, musical, movie didn't even make sense. I understand the feeling of yours for Erik, but you can't change the fact that Raoul and Christine fell in love.

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Originally Posted by emilysweety

Raoul loved Christine, okay? Remember "All I ask of you"??

Raou-"No more talk of darkness, forget these wide eyed fears. I'm here, nothing can harm you, my words will warm and calm you. Let me be your freedom, let daylight dry your tears. I'm here, with you, beside you, to guard you and to guide you..."

Plus, if he didn't love Christine, why would he risk his life to save Christine in the Phantom's vault?? If the whold thing was like what you said, then the whole thing in the book, musical, movie didn't even make sense. I understand the feeling of yours for Erik, but you can't change the fact that Raoul and Christine fell in love.

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What the HECK are you talking about?? If you read my earlier posts you would see that I am defending Raoul and Christine!! I was AGREEING with you about Raoul's love!

I think that Raoul truly did love Christine. (I'm not the biggest Raoul fan.) Why else would he have risked his life to save her from the Phantom/Erik several times? No, I don't think that Christine was confused.
P.G.7.

Christine loved Raoul- without a doubt. I haven't seen a version that suggested she didn't.

Raoul loved Christine- now there's some iffyness. In the book, yes. Without a doubt.

In the musical/'04 movie? Eh heh... no. In the book, he sought her out even before she became famous. In the '04 movie, he didn't spare her a glance until she was famous and worthy of him. He doesn't listen to her or respect her.

I think he liked her, and definitely liked the idea of having a famous girlfriend who everyone adored. Maybe he grew to love her, but I don't think he did at first. She seemed more like a piece of pretty to have on his arm than a partner. He wants to protect her, but that might be more a bit of an ingrained sense of chivalry than actual love. He didn't take Erik seriously- if he did he would've taken better precautions than talking about it in the @^@$^ Opera House. I don't think he realized he would be risking his life.

And if he did- he would've kept his damn hand at the level of his eyes rather than walking in and letting Erik grab a rope and walk over to him like that. >_<

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Originally Posted by PhantomLover2

I would have stayed with Erik and loved him as he deserved. Does anyone else feel that way/Does Raoul seem like a spoiled child to anyone else?

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I am curious. Why do you think Erik "deserves" to be loved?