Bhekti, it is you that I believe is honest. I will remember you in my prayers. Always.
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Bhekti, it is you that I believe is honest. I will remember you in my prayers. Always.
hi Jannah..you said: "what affected me even more, to tears- the verses of the bible that are so similar to those in the Quraan. So similar, as if translated!" ok give it some thought and ask yoursef which of these two books came first?which could be copying from which??you know what i mean..the Quraan is not different from the bible but that doesnt necessarily make it truer..you need to look for the original..bible manuscripts go back to almost 250 B.C[thanks Stanislaw; i just edited my silly mistake]..and they keep on discovering manuscripts and all texts found are matching..i think everyone needs to do the proper research before making any major decision such as changing religions..
P.S: don't go for statistics when converting; it's not necessarily relevant
Peace
The oldest parts of the bible date back well into BC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewels83
The quraan is a more modern text, I fully agree with your statement.
You compare between the Bible and the Quraan by which was there first. Then ask yourself, which was there first? The Bible or the Book of Moses? And why Christianity not Jewism? If you have the correct answer for that Question, then I assure you, it will be the same answer for why Quraan, not the Bible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewels83
Look ya Jannah, i dont really get what your tryin to say here; but when i say the Bible manuscripts date back to almost 250 B.C i'm talkin about the whole Bible (New and Old testament i.e the book of Moses is included in Christianity and Christians beleive in it)..Fa i'm not comparing between Bible and Book of Moses (Torah); christians beleive in it as well..In the end Both Bible and Torah go back to hundreds of years B.C..Quote:
Originally Posted by Jannah
Peace
the new testament is dated about 100-200AD, with the final say happening in 300AD under Constantine The Roman Empereror, and corrupter of christianity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewels83
All i'm saying guys is that we should always go back to manuscripts..see how old scientists think they are...and see different manuscripts, find if they are matching. If there are things in the Quran exactly like those in the Bible then these very words should then be attributed to the older text and not the one written let's say between 660 A.D and 700 A.D (Long long after the Christ came i mean)..lets just be a little bit more objective and make it a peaceful conversationQuote:
Originally Posted by Stanislaw
Oh I quite agree. That there is some common text (most likely the early books of the Torah) But if you begin to explore other religeous beliefs, and belief systems that were in place before judaism, then it is clear that more contempory religions are influenced by these ideas. Religion is after all a human invention (an invention inspired by God, but an invention none the less). Instead of squabling amongst eachother, and debating as to who has the superior belief system, we should focus on the similarities and working together...after all we are all children of God, created by God, and placed on this planet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewels83
I beleive that God didnt send us "religions"; God is consistent and his message is one..and could only be found in one place because i do not think that he would want his own creation gathering bits and peices here and there to get to God. I'm sure that he left one book, one message for us all (and that the book He left is flawless)..Be it the Quran, Bible, whatever..Budhism is different i think; i dont know much about it but i dont think that they beleive there is one Creator up there..(correct me guys) anyhow..i just beleive there is one and only one answer as to where God is and how He wants us to see Him...There are similarities among religions but there are contradictions as well (sever ones too)..for instance Islam acknowledges the sanctity of Jesus; that He was a prophet; born from the Virgin Mary; could bring life to the dead (But completely refuses the fact that He was God)..u see what i mean? there are similarities between religions when it comes to moralities,behaviours, what's wrong whats right..but The core of the beleif is what differs and this is what we should all look for..To know the truth..God doesnt want to hide it from us..He wants us to find Him..Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanislaw
"there are similarities between religions when it comes to moralities,behaviours, what's wrong whats right..but The core of the beleif is what differs and this is what we should all look for..To know the truth..God doesnt want to hide it from us..He wants us to find Him.."
Thank you Jewels, your words helped alot, really. I hope Allah would lead us all to the truth. as you said, it is not hidden, but it's us who need to search deep inside us, and outside- the manuscripts and evidences present throughout history, and words of scientists as well. Hopefully, reaching the right path in the end. In Islam, when someone says (or does) something as pure as what you said, we say: Jazaka Allahu Khayran which means : May Allah reward you what's good. :)
I apologize for the misunderstanding, or if anyone understood it as an offensive debate. We are all here for peaceful reasons, asking for help or trying to give it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewels83
What I meant in that post was, Christians do believe in Moses and the Torah. but Jewism does not believe in the Bible or the Quraan. It's the same with the Quraan, where Muslims believe in the Bible and the Torah, while Christians do not believe in Islam. Meaning, believing in what came before, but not in what came after, get it?
I was just clearing my question. as for the answer, it does need- like you said- research.
By the way, what's Torah in English?
"By the way, what's Torah in English?"
Christians call the pre-Christian Hebrew/Judaic scriptures (Genesis to Malachi) "the Old Testament" and the Christian Scriptures (Matthew's Gospel to Revelation of St John) "the New Testament." Together, these testaments make up "the Bible." So you may be causing a little confusion, as you seem to be using the word "Bible" to mean just the New Testament.
"Testament" (or sometimes "Covenant") means, in this case, an agreement or contract. The "Old Testament" is writing relevant to the agreement of God with Abraham and his descendants. The "New Testament" is writing about the agreement mediated between God and all people through Jesus. Or so Christians believe.
Torah is (I think) a word that means "Teaching" and is used as a name for the first five books of the Old Testament (Christians tend to use the Greek word "Pentateuch" for these books.)
I do not know if the Jews have a collective name for what the Christians call the Old Testament - or even if the Jews include within their sacred writings material written after the Christian era. I see no reason why they should not, because the Old Testament was a developing collection of writings, including history, pre-history, prophesy and poetry. It was still being added to in the first century BC, (the account of the Maccabees.) The idea of a definitive set of sacred writings may not be a part of Judaism - I do not know.
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I think you've made another mistake as well :$.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jannah
Christians believe in Moses and the Old Testament (torah), but jews believe in the old testament found in the christian bible but don't believe neither in the new testament nor the Qur'an (correct me anyone if im wrong here).
It's not the same with muslims, who don't believe in the Bible or the Torah, but who instead believe they were both corrupted by mankind, and that the Qur'an is the true word of God.
Muslims DO believe in the Bible and the Torah and that they WERE the true word of God... The fact that humans have interfered in these Holy Books and changed many facts is reason for why the Quraan came with the last prophet (pbuh).
Peace my friends
I believe that there are elements of truth in the earthly religions.
I believe that the split between Islam, and the Jewish based religions is in the tale of Abraham: If I remember correctly Muslims believed Abraham travelled to Mecca with Ishmael and his mother, where as the Jewish traditions believed that Abraham stayed with Isaac and his mother.
Hey Jannah, You say that Muslims beleive that the current versions of the Bible and the Old testament are fake right "people interfered in these Holy Books"??ok..so, Where are the original texts then??the ones that weren't changed..Did the whole world come together (including christains and Jews which are not on good terms) and decided to burn the original copies and kept the false ones??And if these books (Bible and Torah) are really Holy as you say, then God who is far greater than anyone, couldve thus protected His books from any human interference instead of leaving us all bewildered and making people such as "Chrstians" and "Jews" go astray..You know what i mean???
Peace