The use of small "j" seems very personal to okmit, so was just giving input. Further the "war" point is what actually counts.
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The use of small "j" seems very personal to okmit, so was just giving input. Further the "war" point is what actually counts.
"Let me ask you, who is the greater prophet, Jesus or Muhammad? Whose words and teachings are most important? If Jesus words are only true when they are taken from Muhammad's words in the Quran, which prophet do you really "believe" in and love? And finally why did God abandon mankind for so long by failing to provide true, trustworthy, reliable, and enduring guidance"
I don't think it is right to compare prophets in this way. Every prophet was important and we bless all of them, because they are God's chosen people who delivered his message. God has been sending them since He created the first human being. Every prophet came with the same message; belief in one God, Almighty, Eternal, Most Just, the One who is above everything else. Mohammed a.s was the last Prophet, confirming all other prophets and their messages, and bringing God's last revelation to human kind until Judgment Day. Because he is the last prophet, he is thought of as being the seal on the whole process of prophethood. Everything that is revealed in the Qur'an is believed to be God's last message and because it is the last, it is believed to be the one containing the ultimate truth. All other revelations are accepted as much as they agree with the Qur'an. Everything else is believed to have been changed by humans throught the history, and cannot be taken as God's word. In Islam, five prophets are believed to be the most influential ones, and those are : Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Noah, and Mohammed (peace be upon them). Consequently, we love and honor these prophets they way God wants us to do.
Your second question in which you state that God has abandoned humankind in some way, I would answer that God, Almighty, has given us guidance throughout our existence. In Islam it is believed that God sent more than 120 000 prophets over the years, but the revelations were sometimes lost, changed or corrupeted by humans. It wasn't God who abandoned us, it was us who over and over again abandoned God's messages. HOwever, when Qur'an was revealed, because it was supposed to be the last revelation, God made a promise in it that the book will not be changed, and that it will be perserved in its full originality until the Judgment Day. Because of this belief, muslims reject every other revelation that is in conflict with the holy Qur'an.
"Which is quite curious when you consider they acknowledge him as Christ,born of Immaculate Conception,capable of raising the dead,restoring health an giving Grace(Peace.)Since his Birth,Life,Death,and Ressurection were all clearly prophesied,if He is not God Incarnate,or the Son of God then why has his name been Praised for the past 4,000 years?...Hmm?"
We do believe that Jesus a.s was born of Immaculate Conception, that he did raise the dead, and all the other things that you name, but we believe that it was God, Almighty, who allowed all this to happen. It was not Jesus a.s who performed any of these things in his own power, but he power and the will came from God. Jesus a.s was just an instrument, like other prophets have been instruments used by God to deliver his message. It was not uncommon for prophets to perform miracles, but they were God's miracles, and that is where the line has to be drawn to avoid confustion. Adem was created without a woman or a man, but he is not believed to be God, so why should Jesus's a.s conceptino be regarded more in any different light?
This is what the holy Qur'an says of Jesus a.s:
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Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah hath chosen thee and purified thee- chosen thee above the women of all nations.
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"O Mary! worship Thy Lord devoutly: Prostrate thyself, and bow down (in prayer) with those who bow down."
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Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah;
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"He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous."
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She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!
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"And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,
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"And (appoint him) a messenger to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah's leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah's leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;
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"'(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me.
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"'It is Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.'"
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When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah?" Said the disciples: "We are Allah's helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims.
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"Our Lord! we believe in what Thou hast revealed, and we follow the Messenger; then write us down among those who bear witness."
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Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.
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"As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
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"As to those who believe and work righteousness, Allah will pay them (in full) their reward; but Allah loveth not those who do wrong."
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"This is what we rehearse unto thee of the Signs and the Message of Wisdom."
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The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was.
This is just one part, but I thought it would be interesting to those who think that muslims reject Jesus a.s altogether.
If anyone is interested to find all that there is about Jesus a.s in the holy Qur'an, here is an online copy of the book, and a very efficient index that will find anything one is interested in.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/quranindex.html#J
I am not suprised you never heard of the apparitions.The media coverage in the United States was miniscule as they occured.The focus at that time was placed on Vietnam,and the Race riots.Quote:
Originally Posted by adilyoussef
As for not appearing because they are dead.We (Christians) believe Jesus,(Immanuel,God with us) Rose from the dead and conquered death.We have eternal LIFE...some in Peace...others in conflict.
As proof of an Historical event occuring?You might check out Our Lady of Light,Egypt,or www.theworkofgod.org
If you think it is Christian propaganda you might reasearch the The newspaper archives in Zeitoun,Cairo,or any other source you wish.
I accept your apology for the lower case J and ask you to acceept mine for my misunderstanding of the word "Jihad."I was under the impression it meant "STRUGGLE" an reffered to OUR constant struggle to LIVE the Faith,and belived the the "HOLY WAR" interpretation was a bastardization of the word to meet the ends of a political quest not a religious one!After all is not War and Holy not incongrous,(oxymoron)Like...it was so Hot the man Froze to death?Besides,who is so arrogant to believe God all powerfull of Cosmos needs or wants mortal men to bring him "GREATER GLORY" via Killing an Mayham,Chaos?
In Christ,okmit
Of course I accept them. I want just to make one point. Whatever religion that one believes in, it is just a system of regulation. Who knows which is true. Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Boudaism... There are so many. I do believe in Islam, and its teachings taught us to believe in Christianity and Judaism also but in a different way. Islam has taken a lot from other religions and based its rules upon theirs.Quote:
Originally Posted by okmit
When I said we have a different consept of love, it does not mean the word love by itself, but the application of it. You do love your mother but not in the same way you do for your brother, father or beloved. Love differs from one approach to the other and one culture to another.
I'd rather not discuss religion we people because to do so, I have to learn the Quora'an by heart and the Souna also in addition to have a good knowledge of Cristianity and the Holly Book. Other wise I'll wrong them and mislead people. That is why I asked for proofs. Proofs from the Holly Book or Quora'an. What we say is just our opinings. To argue them, one has to be very miticulous and specific providing evidence and refferenses. Whow can I believe what you are saying is true if you don't guive me a tangibal source to reffer to. I have lots of evidence of the true teachings of Islam as you may have lots for your religion.
I want to ask you this question: what is the aim of making different religions? Or why God did not choose one religion and rather made many? We are all humans but we are different, some are "black" ( sory for the expretion) and some "white", some Muslims and some Christians, and so on and so forth. Why? We are all sons and dauters of Addam and Ev. So why we are different? I know you can't answer these questions if so you understand why we are in this earth and reached the abslute trueth.
I'm not saying that Christianity is wrong or right. I'm just saying that any one of us chooses its way for happyness. If you are happy being a Christion and convinced of its being the true religion, so let it be. Just lead a happy existance and we will know who is right in the day of judgement.
:eek: It's this kind of behaviour from Christians that has made me avoid any Church (unless empty) since I was 18...Quote:
Originally Posted by okmit
Jesus said before He ascended to heaven "i leave you with a new command" you must love the Lord your God with all your heart mind soul and strength and your neighbor as yourself." He never advocated mistreating one another. And as he hung upon the cross he said of his enemies :Father forgive them...."
To judge a whole church by the actions of a few who in no way represent Him is perhaps a little unfair. When I first came upon this forum there was one person, perhaps a couple that seemed very rude and unkind and sort of troublemakers and I thought that i should forget this site. But I perservered and saw that they were certainly anything but like the rest of you. It is just a thought. And we are supposed to "bless not curse" and "love our enemies and do good to those that spitefully use you." Just another thought.
Hear, hear. If more people thought like this the world be a finer place.Quote:
Originally Posted by adilyoussef
Day of judgment?
Associated with The Rapture, one of my favorite Christian ideas. That's when all non-Christians go directly to hell to begin burning in agony for all eternity. How's that for tolerance and compassion from followers of the Prince of Peace?Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBojangles
Although they are but thoughts, they are good ones. Well said rachel.Quote:
Originally Posted by rachel
Thank you for the compliment! I hope that too. At least, we can make it a finer place at this forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by kilted exile
How unfortunate.What part of my statement upset you,the praying for enlightenment or forgivness?You are aware not even God purposes to Judge us before were dead are you not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koa
There is a terrific book by C.S.Lewis,"The Screwtape Letters"I think you would enjoy.
Mohandas K. Gandhi once said;"I have a deep love and great respect for Jesus and have patterned my life by his teachings
,I could very easily be a Christian if only it were not for Christians!"Hmm?
I am not passing judgement on you, Muslims,Hindus,or anyone else.You may have noted my reference to the Apparitions of Our Lady of Light,Zeitoun,Egypt.The first wittness was a Muslim man,named Farouk Mohammed Atwa which was undergoing operations for gangrene.The following day when he went to the hospital for a scheduled operation,he was certified completely healed.There were many other cases of Muslim and others being healed by Theotokos (Mary).If that is not inclusive I don't know what is.
In Christ,okmit
And to think LOGOS said I was HARSH!It has been said,a little knowlege is a dangerous thing.I was asked to give my source of information, so if you would like to give credence to your statement give the source.Hmm?Quote:
Originally Posted by starrwriter
Koa, I think what Okmit trying to say was that for certain believers, using small capital letters for certain names (i.e. god, a prophet name, or highly respective religious figure), is considered as a disgrace and a form of disrespect. And they would perhaps show strong resentment towards such act.
Yet, as Christianity teaches about love and forgiveness (as what Okmit have said), there's no such hard feelings. And on the other hand Christian who does not forgive is actually not a true Christian.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koa
Exactly!Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by subterranean
Sorry for my late coming and sorry for putting j insteade of J it bothered me just like you , one day some one asked me what do you do if you see your parents? I said enthusiastically I hung them!!! I meant I "hug" them ..
Well…..
I dont ignore there is deferent conceptions for Jesus" peace should be upon him" in both Islam and Christianity
In Islam Jesus is a great prophet who was supported by miracles like other prophet Moses Noah and Mohammad .when God sends prophets he sends with them miracles to believe them, Jesus miracle was his delivery with no father like Adam how was born without mother and father so why couldn’t he be God
because Adam, Jesus and other prophets are created by almighty Allah who has the all power to do whatever he wants he can create a man without parents by one word 'BE' and it is
In Christianity he is God….other said he is the son of God or he is the father the son and the holy spirit in the same time …the conception of Jesus in Islam as great prophet who we should all respect and love him is more logical than any other conceptions
REGARDS