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I want to go back to this. I understand that a school library isn't big enough to carry everything. But the topic that Stanislaw was looking for is pretty big and general isn't it? Even if it's only a school library, the fact that it doesn't have these books rather baffles me and the only conclusion that I can draw is that they are being censored, which is wrong. Bottom line, a letter needs to be written.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demona
READ THE SCHOOL`S POLICY THEN WRITE WHATEVER YOU WANT!Quote:
Originally Posted by Shea
sorry for the caps, but i am afraid that this is the only way I can ask people to take this point into consideration. this is the law that school establishes itself according to its needs. you cannot ignore it and just say that this is wrong. as simple as that. if there are no regulations according to which the library has no right to display the books, then fine - write the letter, bring the issue to the discussion, whatever....really.... however, i still think that going to another library would widen one`s outlook anyway. probably it would be a bigger library with even more books :) but it is up to you.
A public high school shouldn't have restrictions on anything that is reasonably educational. A book on Satanism might not turn up, for example, but they should let you access the information on the internet. Then again, my high school censored The Onion webpage, which I thought leaned to the side of absurdity. I mean, c'mon, it's The Onion!
The Onion is funny, but I can understand why they would censor it. Some of it tends to be a bit risque.
well, why shouldn`t a book on Satanism turn up then? it is educational, isn`t it? you cannot deny the fact that it exists, people are converted....it is a sect....a religion if you wish....and i am interested in all sorts of religions and so no... so, if there are materials about other religions why should not there be a book about Satanism? i`d have the right to complain then, you know...hehQuote:
Originally Posted by AbdoRinbo
that was one of the points that i stated in one of my first messages but only now a decent example came...if the school has the materials about the so called main religions it should acquire and display books about everything else...that`s just like a snowball, which grows and grows....i believe that schools just dont want to start it, for eventually it would bring things to chaos....
It's not that I agree with the institution of education in America, Demona, but I understand the fact that they really don't want to repeat another Columbine incident. Is censoring, or outright banning, knowledge the best way to go about dealing with it? In my opinion, no. But give us an alternative and I'll show you that it is just as fraut with restrictions and contradictions as the current system. Even my alternative is riddled with problems which I am openly aware of; and it's probably too radical anyway.
did i say that banning or censoring can solve any problem? the point is that we are talking about one single school. it is not like there are no information avaliable in the whole country!Quote:
Originally Posted by AbdoRinbo
Anyway, i belive that everyone who participated in this conversation, are going to stick to their own opinions. There seems to be no point on which we can agree, and i belive that the reason for this is socially different background (by this i mean society as such, not an individual`s background). Besides, trying to convince someone of something, is useless and i do not really see any point in this. so, i suggest that we leave this thing as it is, meaning that we leave upto Staniwslaw to decide what do....who btw, after starting all this has disappeared lol....probably busy writing letters :)
cheers all,
Demona
No, and I hope you don't think that's what I was implying (I was kind of using 'you' as a rhetorical device). I'm just here lending a voice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demona
I think it's good for education though. We're trying (or at least I'd like to think we're trying) to remedy the already problematic communication breakdown, especially in the US. So, please, keep talking.Quote:
Besides, trying to convince someone of something, is useless and i do not really see any point in this. so, i suggest that we leave this thing as it is, meaning that we leave upto Staniwslaw to decide what do....who btw, after starting all this has disappeared.
oh, well, good, then we got each others points =]Quote:
Originally Posted by AbdoRinbo
communication breakdown? enlighten me, please. if I got it correctly we are no longer talking about this censorship thing...are we?Quote:
I think it's good for education though. We're trying (or at least I'd like to think we're trying) to remedy the already problematic communication breakdown, especially in the US. So, please, keep talking.
i mean the topic is worth discussing in general but not in this particular case, to my mind.
P.S. i must appologise for misspelling (in my previous message) the name of the author of the thread: it is, of course Stanislaw not Staniwslaw. silly me...
I think the social decay of communication goes hand-in-hand with the issue of censorship. I mean, my parents are always telling me that if I ever get arrested for drugs or something like that, they'll throw me out. Well, that's nice of them and all, but I'd rather they just talk to me instead of making lame threats. The same idea can be applied to our schools: should we threaten to suspend students who clash with the administration, or should we try and resolve the problem? This is a question that many students ask themselves, but, of course, no one ever resolves anything. The administration isn't there to make friends, they are there to provide a safe enviroment, even if it rests on a false sense of security. And, ultimately, it is the students who suffer in the end because of the boundaries that are imposed on them.
They are treated like pets in their first five or six years of schooling and then, with the completion of grammar school, they are looked at more as highly unstable masses of possibility. The aim of teachers is to instill a sense of order into them and produce useful citizens that will continue oiling the Capitalist Machine as soon as their generation steps down. The fact is, the powerful and wealthy people run this country. Look at Enron. Look at the reconstruction of Iraq. You probably didn't know this, but Dick Cheney is the CEO of Halliburton, the company that is rebuilding the Iraqi Oil Industry. Also, the Bush family owns huge shares of stock holdings in a St. Louis company, Engineered Support Systems, that mysteriously rose to $61.25 a share--leading to a total profit of $300 million--at the start of the war while all the other stocks seemed to take a nose-dive. That seems suspect to me. Anyway, this isn't a political debate, but you can see how those in power gain more wealth, more power, as a result of atrocities like war (and tax cuts).
The question arises as to whether the current political structure would benefit at all from schools that produced independent and thinking citizens. If more than 1% of the American population noticed a strange pattern in the stock market and the peculiar position of our leaders in the corporate world (or cared enough to point them out), there'd be a massive reform going on. Citizens who are taught to question their leaders, to go against the current of patriotism, are lethal to the American political structure, even as a minority. That's why schools, public and private, are so bent on censoring radical knowledge: it cracks skulls with their propaganda about democracy.
AbdoRinbo
hello,
i just popped in to see how things go here and to say that`ll post the answer asap. i`m buried under tonnes of work till Thursday or so...
:(
Heh, no problem. These are busy times for students.
I am back. My computer crashed and I have been very busy. I sent the letter. I read all of the other posts and am a bit perplexed. I could go to another librarry, but that is not the point, I was outraged that certain books would be censored, especially if they are neede to complete class assignments. I am also not sure why banning religiouse texts from a library would prevent an incident, like columbine.
I do apologize for being away, but stuff happens. :)
I shant let this rest until the problem has been resolved, either me loving big brother, or these texts being brought into the library.
Unnecessary use of pornography (no need to describe a sexual course all that detailed.)
hello,
now where were we....
i believe the term for such notions is generation gap...Quote:
Originally Posted by AbdoRinbo
as you have pointed out - the administration is there to provide safe environment, and not to satisfy evryone and everybody. they have their rules, which are supposed to be respected and so on... alas, the system is not going to change just because one person decided that he is right and not the administration.Quote:
The same idea can be applied to our schools: should we threaten to suspend students who clash with the administration, or should we try and resolve the problem? This is a question that many students ask themselves, but, of course, no one ever resolves anything. The administration isn't there to make friends, they are there to provide a safe enviroment, even if it rests on a false sense of security. And, ultimately, it is the students who suffer in the end because of the boundaries that are imposed on them.
students suffer if they are not able to solve the problem by themselves. i am sorry for such people.
and i would not call this sense of security a false one.
now, this conversation is starting to be extremely general, which i do not really like, because in this case the mere verbiage can go on for ever.
this is all nice and well...but the point is what can YOU do about it? as you called it The Capitalist Machine...i do agree with this...and the other facts...but the point is that you cannot change anything within the political system (or prevent all those people profitting from all sorts of events) unless you are one of them.....but once you are there you`d probably forget why you went there in the first place.Quote:
They are treated like pets in their first five or six years of schooling and then, with the completion of grammar school, they are looked at more as highly unstable masses of possibility. The aim of teachers is....etc.
as to teaching - any society establishes a model, according to which the kids are going to brough up and taught. i do not see anything illogical about it since the aim is to bring-up individuals like the people of the present society...not some alients, who have nothing to do with the afore-mentioned.
i would not say that they are lethal. and i think that you under-estimate the abilities of people. there are those who know and understand and question and what not. the point is that the system is just tooooooo well-established, be it a system of a state or of a school.Quote:
The question arises as to whether the current political structure would benefit at all from schools that produced independent and thinking citizens. If ......etc.