I don't disagree... I enjoy debating the topic myself, as long as it's a back and forth debate. The problem I have with many people who debate the topic is just that they generally refuse to listen.
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I don't disagree... I enjoy debating the topic myself, as long as it's a back and forth debate. The problem I have with many people who debate the topic is just that they generally refuse to listen.
I'm not sure if anyone has said this already--because I don't want to go through 19 pages of stuff to find out. But are the two necessarily mutually exclusive? Could not the universe have been "created" through evolution. In other words could evolution not have been guided by an intelligent force?
That was mentioned Sirius and there are plenty of folks subscribing to that belief, since it lets them have their cake and eat it too. Really nothing wrong with that idea, so long as you're okay with the god being there at the start. If anything I find it a bit more reasonable than just throwing evolution away entirely.
Fantastic.Quote:
it lets them have their cake and eat it too
Should I decide to come to the USA, I think I'd avoid Al and choose WA.
By the way, what do "Al" and "WA" mean????
Alabama and Washington. Alabama is the South, a hazardous place for someone with a loud set of dissent to live. Washington is far Northwest, an eerie little place full of hippies tolerant and pretty nice, so long as you stay on the west side of the state. Not to say Alabama doesn't have nice people, just that it can be a bit ..well, unnerving to live in for some folks compared to others. Seeing as Tennessee and a few other southern states tried to make evolution unable to be taught in schools and Washington hasn't had anyone bicker about the problem as of late.
What??????Quote:
evolution unable to be taught in schools
I think if there is such a thing as a God, as the typical religion perceives it, then I wager he simply planted the seed for the world, with a fair idea of how it was going to turn out, as a gardener does when he plants the apple seed. So he created evolution.
But just as it is beyond the apple's intelligence to realize how it came to be and why, it is also beyond our intelligence too.
That's my explanation anyway, it suits me fine.
Hey Mr. explanation, the point is:
What is God for?
I don't need God to understand the world.
Just read some Google news once in awhile about America around the words "evolution banned in schools" and you'll get the gist. For awhile there were stickers on textbooks in Georgia schools that said "Evolution is a theory, not a fact" until they were ruled unconstitutional. The issue is still debated in Tennessee, Arkansas, Missouri...etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxos
!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek2:!!!!!!!!!!!!
I like Alabama okay. It is a bit rigid in its beliefs (like voting republican in elections...blah). However, if you are diligent enough, you can find those who are more "alternative" (as far as AL goes) in their ways of thinking. I am a Christian, suprise! But there are things that I know. I know that the people who wrote the Bible didn't have an understanding of the world like we do today, scientifically speaking. I know that, if there is a God, it is more than possible for him (or her, or it, I guess...if that's your view point) to have directly inspired the Bible, just as it is possible for that same God to have "inspired" evolution. I think personally far too many people are willing to throw away ideas, leading to such happy things as wars. But, I'm just one man with an opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyrwen
Whatever works for you. I found quite a few free-thinking sorts when I lived in NC, be they theistic or not, so I certainly can attest to there always being an alternative personage somewhere. Didn't mean to drag on your state, but when comparing some of the general populous to a NW state it gets to be that way at times. Had to find a distinction generalization so maxos would get the drift.
i think that is the point - whatever you believe about it - evolution is the THEORY of evolution. if it is going to be taught scientifically, it must be called what it is - a theory. really this debate is not a scientific one, though. the bible says, "the fool says there is no God" so each person must decide. those who believe in a literal 6 day creation by God do so by faith. it is not by science, though there is at least as much empirical evidence for creation as for evolution. and those who fight so ardently for evolution do so be/c they reject the existence of God. they want to be in control, be sovereign. these are all results of post-modern influence. whatever you believe, know what it is, know what the origins are. "there is nothing new under the sun" as scripture says. whenever you think that you are expressing some new explanation, some new excuse not to believe in God, know that there have been others before you who have been there already. it is what the greeks called sophomoric, the wise fools. wise in their own eyes and in the eyes of the populace, but fools before God. for those that think there is no conflict between creationism and evolution, it is simple to see when you read the scriptures. scripture asserts that God created the universe in 6 days - that He said it and it was done. there is indeed a conflict. this argument goes to the integrity of scripture. it undermines all of scripture. you must choose - do you accept the veracity of scripture or not? is the bible what it claims to be, God's Word, or not? you cannot have it both ways. contrary to what post-modernism teaches, both cannot be right, be/c they each inherintly say that the other is wrong. if you question scripture in the first pages, what will you do with the rest? you might as well go through and begin to tear out all the pages that you don't agree with, and then, well, what's the point of picking it up at all? Here is the bottom line: scripture teaches that God created the universe in 6 days simply by speaking it into existence. man then fell, God put a curse on all creation. it teaches that since then and as long as the earth shall exist, human beings are sinful and unable to obtain favor in God's eyes, thus deserving of hell. scripture says that God requires justice be/c He is holy. scripture also teaches that be/c of God's great love for His created people, He made another way to satisfy His justice. He sent Someone to live a perfect Life and then bear the justice that man deserves. scripture teaches that Jesus Christ, fully God and fully man came to fulfill the requirements for us, by living a perfect life, dying that we would not have to die for all eternity, and rose again that we, too might live. all He asked, according to scripture, was that we accept that from Him. according to scripture, Jesus said, "anyone who comes to Me, I will not cast out". this is the choice before you- will you believe or won't you? if you are right and scripture is wrong, no big deal, no one gets hurt. but if scripture is right and you are wrong, you get to spend an eternity in hellfire "where there is wailing and gnashing of teeth". so choose carefully, friends.
Pascal's Wager is the concept you are talking about, whether you know it or not. However fine and dandy that whole speech was, I can only say similar things in return to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by anizmail
If your scripture is wrong and another's scripture is right, you might also get to spend an eternity in hellfire alongside me. There are plenty of other gods out there that will get angry if you don't follow them, whether you believe they're all your god or not. Personally I'd suggest believing in the Jewish god, since there isn't any hell, technically speaking, for them. As Thomas Jefferson once said; "Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear." What you suggest, believing "just in case" is tantamount to saying "Believe or go to Hell, the odds are against you" which is basically just fear-mongering. Reason holds more weight in my mind, so I'd rather question the existence all together rather than pick a side because I fear going to Hell.
well, my friend, i suggest doing your research a little more carefully. first of all id like to respond to something you said back in feb. you said that "Evolution is a fact that is explained by theory because that's how science works." that is incorrect. a scientific theory is simply a proposed explanation to a set of observations. when it is proven true it becomes a scientific law. that is why evolution is still, as far as science is concerned, called a theory. just because it has been widely accepted does not make it any more true.
now, as far as hell is concerned... i actually do believe in the jewish God and if you would carefully read the jewish scriptures, you would see oh yes indeed, there is a hell. what you are referring to is reformed judaism which does not believe much of anything. if you talk to an orthodox jew, you would see quickly that hell is taught. i quote from the jewish scripture : Malachi 4:1 "'Surely the day is coming; it will burn like a furnace. All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and that day that is coming will set them on fire,' says the LORD Almighty. 'Not a root or a branch will be left to them.'"
as far as other religions are concerned, not many teach hell. most teach that as long as you are sincere about what you believe, it's all good. many teach annhilationism or soul sleep. that after death, there is no more. but one thing that is exclusively taught in the bible is grace. no religion teaches that God loves us and wants a relationship with us so much that He forsook Himself for our sakes.
you are right, i do not propose believing as "fire insurance". that's why i said choose carefully. search for truth, don't just spout folly without even looking. the true scientists seeks to disprove rather than prove. you just accept what sounds jolly to you and you say i'm unreasonable. i also believe that faith is not a choice, it is a gift. you have to ask for it and you have to accept it when it's offered, or you won't have it.
i challenge you to read the scriptures, genesis - revelations. then you will be equipped to respond to these things.