Shinto beliefs say that humans were born from dieties.
Christian, Muslim and Jewish beliefs say we were made by God to look like him.
I'm sure others do the same.
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Shinto beliefs say that humans were born from dieties.
Christian, Muslim and Jewish beliefs say we were made by God to look like him.
I'm sure others do the same.
p'raps it's not a matter of lying - p'raps it's in the (breadth of) ability to understand god fully.
Muslims do not believe that people look like God or that they resemble Him in any way.
niebies: as Amuse said it isn't about religion lying, but about the point that it's just an individual belief and just because a lot of people hold it doesn't make it true in any absolute sense.
Amra: Isn't that technically because Allah is not to be seen, has no face and no image to be viewed by man?
It's not so much the lying, more...well, each religion has different beliefs, right? And why should some particular beliefs be more true than others? There's nothing wrong with believing something, even if it's not true; but in trying to push someone into your own beliefs...Quote:
Originally Posted by niebiskipolak
*Grins rather sheepishly* or into your own opinions...or perhaps even into the facts...
But what's wrong with facts?
What's wrong with religion?
As long as we keep the line between the two...
I can't think about this. It would drive me nuts....
I'd have to think that there was a little of both invloved...just my opinion.
Yup with Amra muslims dont belive we were made tto look like GOd as we dont know what God is suppose to look like all we Know is that we were created in the best possible image.
Drywn: actually its more like God/Allah (Allah basicly means THE GOD) is any shape and every shape and that he can be seen in anything and everything as a power... and Im getting out of my depth here so Id better swim back to the shallow and say yeah HE/she/It (sexless and all) has no face to be viewed by man.
Also whose to say that it is a case of a fact being a fact only because you belive it??
It is a very strange thing that man always seems to think he's the best, that he's the ruler - that God created the whole planet for his pleasure after His own (funny sentence, I know :D)....that we're created in God's image (or in the best possible one...who says we're anything better than chimpanzees? We are, after all, in the family of the Great Apes - we're closer to chimpanzees than orangutans are), and consequently, his "pet". I know it's tempting to think God is human(-like), but how do we know he doesn't have a jackal's head if we've never even seen him? And why not suppose that he came down to earth in the form of a sheep and died for our sins at the butcher's hand? Pity we don't believe this, it would save a lot of animals' lives...however it would probably affect the poor butchers in a bad way. ;) In fact, how do we know that God, incidentally, didn't create the fish in his image and that man only evolved? Who knows but that Adam and Eve were really salmon? I think that would diminish our importance a deal - I suppose we'd start worshipping fish. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Nightshade
If you're referring to religion, then I don't think anybody ever talked of calling it - or its contents - "fact"...it always seems to be "belief" because there's nothing to prove it. (If there was then I'm sure it would be far more credible for a lot more people; sadly, God seems to not want to prove himself. He seems to want to make it difficult for his followers by making himself obscure and unreachable, cloaked by enigma...)Quote:
Also whose to say that it is a case of a fact being a fact only because you belive it??
I know I'm probably "wrong" in all my conclusions about God, etc. but I think I'm not any more wrong than the traditional viewpoint established thousands of years ago. They deified Jesus...there was no Christianity before then. Why not? Why didn't God show himself to the Egyptians, for example? Or is it perhaps just as good to believe in Anubis and Amun-Re and Bastet?
Loki
From what I recall, weren't the Shinto deities natural ones? Such as mountains and rivers and trees? Then they would be in a sense correct; we were born from water. We in fact are water. And soil. And stardust. And particles that were created (created themselves) at the beginning of time....Quote:
Shinto beliefs say that humans were born from dieties.
Sorry that wasnt clear, the belief is that everything GOd created is perfect and the best image for its purpose in life. Ie some is blond because blond is the coulour that best suits them. Flies look they way they do because that is the best and most perfect image for them. etc.Quote:
It is a very strange thing that man always seems to think he's the best, that he's the ruler - that God created the whole planet for his pleasure after His own (funny sentence, I know )....that we're created in God's image (or in the best possible one...who says we're anything better than chimpanzees?
:D
No I wasnt actually I was referrimng more to the power of belief. In that if you believe somthing is real, true or a fact them it is so if only to you.Quote:
If you're referring to religion, then I don't think anybody ever talked of calling it - or its contents - "fact"...
Ive had this argument with other people before so before anyone states the obvious flaw I am not saying that if you believe gravity doesne exsist it wont, Just that for most beliefs that are taken for facts (the shape of the earth for instance once it was a fact that it was flat).
So what I am saying is that facts are only a dominant belief in society, a fact is only a fact if most people belive it.
Fascinating. :D So does that mean God created every individual...er...pair of individuals...for example the first two flies, the first two blondes, the first two...:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Nightshade
I still maintain what I said about Jesus being a sheep. He could have come down multiple times already (our sins are fast accumalating) and nobody noticed. Why not?
Have you ever realised that the Bible indicates the Earth to be flat? Of course, you'll say, because that was the belief at that time. I'd perfectly agree with you. It also says there are insects with only four legs (creepy), that we should sacrifice our children to God, that kids should be whipped multiple times (as long as they survive)...all this alongside with God created Adam and Eve, etc. etc. etc. which people really cite as Christianity. I respect those who follow the Bible's better half, though they're obviously not full Christians...but I think that most people don't even read Deutronomy (for good reasons) and therefore can still think that this book was written by God. Otherwise they would be appalled, shocked, horrified. Many Christians deconvert after reading the Bible.
Would this also mean that, because Christianity is the dominant world religion, the Christian god is a fact more than any other god? That gods still believed in today are any more true than those believed in during the past? I think I know what you're getting at...but that would not be true "fact", it would only be thought of as fact. If I believed I could fly (see Dyrwen's post near the beginning of this thread) would it then make it a fact?Quote:
So what I am saying is that facts are only a dominant belief in society, a fact is only a fact if most people belive it.
This is becoming a very interesting discussion...
Well it means whatever you take it to mean exept that God in some way had somthing to do with it.Quote:
So does that mean God created every individual...er...pair of individuals...for example the first two flies, the first two blondes, the first two...
Personally I belive it means God decided the genitics of it and made all the rules aboout genes and things and then let things evolve from there.
So 2 eyes 2 feet 2hands 1 head for humans 6 legs compound eyes , wings ect for flies.
Also that certain traits go together red hair, pale complextion.. things like that and usually peoples natural hair colour actually suits them best!
(genetics again)
I dont think I can comment on the bible as I am not a christian but The Qu'arn (Koran) indicates that it is round, revolves around the sun and other things. Also I think that it depends how you are reading these things. If they are trully holy books ment to last forever then different things will have different meanings through time.Quote:
Have you ever realised that the Bible indicates the Earth to be flat?
No I think the socially dominat accepted fact today is that God does not exsit.Quote:
Would this also mean that, because Christianity is the dominant world religion, the Christian god is a fact more than any other god?
But what I mean is that facts are realtive the christian God is a fact to Christians and and to other people their God is a fact. Thats what faith is all about isnt it believing and knowing somthing is true?
Maybe mother nature is just another name for God maybe evolution is too. maybe any unhuman power is God or s manifestation of at least?
Very interesting. But then there is no need for a God...it seems to be a rule of nature that unnecessary things don't exist/come to exist/continue to exist. Back in the old days, people didn't know anything about science etc. as we do today, the sky was held up by giants, the world was flat and resting on a mountain of turtles, etc...all those beliefs sprang from the need to explain why we are here and how we came to get here. How did we get here, after all? And so God was born. God was exactly the right sort of thing to make a world and solve their problems of how they got there, why this happened, why that happened, etc. God, or the gods, of course...long before Christianity there were other religions, such as the Ancients of Egypt, Greece, Rome, Norway, of course :D - my personal favourite.....but nowadays there's no need for a God to create planet Earth - planet Earth creates itself. There no need for a god to plant fully-formed humans onto that Earth and command them to live. There is no need for someone to make things happen. Things happen by themselves.Quote:
Well it means whatever you take it to mean exept that God in some way had somthing to do with it.
Personally I belive it means God decided the genitics of it and made all the rules aboout genes and things and then let things evolve from there.
Or do they? Some people, deists if I am correct, think that God started the Big Bang and then decided to disappear since he wasn't needed (or became extinct, whatever you like) after that. The universe blowed up from the size of a nothing to the size of a pea to the size of - it's still growing today...Antimatter fought matter, and matter won...but you see, Anthropic principle does not necessarily imply that there is a god. It's more to do with this universe being the universe with the best conditions for human life - in any other sort it would be impossible. We ask, why are we here? Why is everything exactly right? But we would not be here if it weren't exactly right, and wouldn't be here to ask it. There are multiple histories of our universe out there - and we observe it from this one because it is the one suited for us to develop. I may not be making much sense here, but it is a fascinating subject...I'd suggest reading The Universe in a Nutshell by Stephen Hawking, it's a fantastic book.
You'd be surprised. The source I have saysQuote:
No I think the socially dominat accepted fact today is that God does not exsit.
This statistic was updated in 2005...Quote:
World Population Percentages by Religious Group
religious 86%, non-religious and anti-religious 14%.
I know what you mean, but wouldn't that still be non-fact in real life? I suppose you could say fact can only be observed by humans (?) and so whatever we observe is correct but...truth doesn't change by observer. The truth is there without us, isn't it? If the whole solar system had never come into being, would it mean that the rest of the universe didn't exist because nobody was there to say it was a fact that it did? You're right, it is a fact to them...but without them, or anybody else, would it still be? I don't think so. Facts are the things that are unchanged by perspective. Much is called fact, undoubtedly, which is not fact at all...Quote:
But what I mean is that facts are realtive the christian God is a fact to Christians and and to other people their God is a fact. Thats what faith is all about isnt it believing and knowing somthing is true?
Nice thinking. IQuote:
Maybe mother nature is just another name for God maybe evolution is too. maybe any unhuman power is God or s manifestation of at least?
Loki.
Things are not evolving, they never did evolve, and never will evolve. Are they evolving in front of you? Answer is NO. Then why believe it so? Surely in the hundreds of years that people have started to believe in this thinking, they would have seen SOMETHING evolve. (assuming that the fishes now would change into birds later), surely out of the thousands of days so far, something would happen? But NO. Nothing HAS evolved. Sometimes I wonder whether science, REAL science (not applied science and technology), but real science is not moving backwards. The thinking seems so to me.