Oh I like this one, Prince. I can see her now, proud, arrogant and aquiline. Great description. H
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Oh I like this one, Prince. I can see her now, proud, arrogant and aquiline. Great description. H
There's a winner with me.Quote:
Originally Posted by PrinceMyshkin
Thanks, Hawkman and
You must have been trying to speak with the same woman, or her brother! Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by krymsonkyng
Nineteen month old Nana
on my street
has eyes so clear
I believe I can see
God in them.
They say you need only believe, my Prince.
I would challenge you to look into this child's mild face and clear eyes, and DISbelieve! Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by hack
but do you, actually? (I mean SEE? or believe you could but do not?)Quote:
Originally Posted by PrinceMyshkin
This is a psycho-theological question it is beyond my competence to answer. We are forbidden to know or to speak God's name, and if I recall correctly, the face was hidden even from Moses when he received the 10 Commandments.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bar22do
All I can say is that I felt compelled to give that child's eyes the whole of my attention and that I felt transcendent love for her and what I thought I saw in her eyes. She and her mother (no father in evidence) live three or four doors away from me. Fate, or circumstances, permitting I will see her again and hopefully she will grow more comfortable with me. Her mother says that she is somewhat shy with men. The second time I saw her, Andrea was beside me and Nana walked up to her as if they were old and trusted friends.
Addenda: Have you ever been looked at with, so to speak, "virgin eyes"? Eyes behind which there was a degree of consciousness but no evident intention to judge you? Eyes that asked "Who are you?" Not what is your occupation, age, religious or political philosophy, but Who are you?
My goodness I can picture this! I am five two-ish (verging on three, lol).Quote:
Originally Posted by PrinceMyshkin
So there is a lot of this going on! Thanks for the snap. :)
Ahhhh but everyone has their story. So neutral protects in a crazy kind of way.Quote:
Originally Posted by PrinceMyshkin
Interesting thoughts. I enjoyed this one. :nod:
Beautiful job. Short, quick, delivers the punch.Quote:
Originally Posted by PrinceMyshkin
LOVED IT! :)
Some 5'2" are quite a bit taller than others!Quote:
Originally Posted by kiz_paws
Thank you for all your comments and welcome back!Quote:
Ahhhh but everyone has their story. So neutral protects in a crazy kind of way.
Interesting thoughts. I enjoyed this one. :nod:
Beautiful job. Short, quick, delivers the punch.
LOVED IT! :)
This is one of the single, most lasting thread in our personal poetry section =)
You are an astute observer of the human animal, my friend. Each one made me catch my breath, or nod sagely, or murmur softly, "wow", and each one helped me see.
As always, a small pleasure.
Many thanks The earth is round and qimissung: as for my "astuteness," it is more a matter of recognizing something of myself in every subject of these Snapshots.
From across the street I hear
(or do I remember?) a child’s voice
as if I were hearing her
from long, long ago
A hefty young man
schleps himself
across the hot, humid street,
his heart
ticking away the minutes
There is a marvellous, mischievous bite to this one prince. I love:
"...his heart
ticking away the minutes."
brilliant. H
I guess I didn't get across what I meant, then, because mischief or any other sort of merriment was far from my mind. It was indeed a very hot humid day and the young man was so overweight that my first thought was that every step he took was shortening his life by a span of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkman
I think it's poignant, I felt that guy's overweight before you explained, probably from "schleps himself" and because of the surrounding summer's humid warmth over here. Your lines ticked minutes away from my own life as I empathized. So to me this is an effective shot. Bar
Thanks, Bar, it's always a pleasure when you comment on one of my offerings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bar22do
Thanks, Hawkman...
A stringy young woman,
one long, lean arm
tapering to a cigarette,
stops, makes a shushing sound
and waves that arm in the air
to banish real or imagined birds.
Wearing his warrior face,
a young man enters the café,
prepared for anything
--even friendship.
That's just how I feel sometimes. Going into the outside world is like combat. I admire your perceptiveness, Prince.
I could have sworn I posted a comment on the 17th July snapshot which is brilliant by the way. With Aug 3rd I have a profound feeling of Dejas vu so maybe I'm ready for the bald one's institution. :D
Your observational pieces are sharply observed slices of humanity and never disappoint.
H
A young man with a watery left eye
appears to be looking at his laptop screen
from two different vantage points.
A couple walk by
with the rubbish of age on their faces.
this is so wonderful written, that's also me with one watery eye!
From my (here third) vantage point - my right eye sharp and alert - I'd certainly prefer:
"A young man with a watery left eye
appears to be looking at his laptop screen
from two different vantage points.
A couple walk by
with the rubies of age on their faces."
This matter put right, I have no other complaints. On the contrary.
And wish you well - Bar
Funnily enough, (and I cringe at disagreeing with Bar), I preferred Rubbish. I think I know exactly what you mean. I used to be a bus-driver, and I got people like that on the bus all day. Great Image!! (Sorry Bar, Respect!)
Well it depends what eye does one look at the elderly with (fear, love, disgust, self-concern, irritation, compassion).
Both "rubbish (of age)" or "rubies (of age)" are modifiers, and - INTERPRETATION, I see and choose to look at what's precious (even though it might sometimes take an effort)...
And honestly, I've never seen rubbish on somebody's face, not even on the numbest one... and I am on the bus (tramway or metro, and more, like street, park, beach) daily, Daf. Plus I can see well :brow:. And what I see is a tangle of history (of course), dignity, insecurity, self-determination, pain, joy, loneliness, desire, helplessness, wit, clumsiness, wisdom, weariness, love, bitterness, all - but not rubbish of age.
So, yes, a clever, poetically effective image indeed, but one I disagree with, though, goes without saying, it's the author's full right to choose how he looks at what or whom he sees, as well as to bare his own emotion when confronted with what challenges his eye...
But were it a real photograph...
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2524/...976baaf4d3.jpg
and better:
http://kids.niehs.nih.gov/illusion/images/illus23.gif :wink5:
Respects to you both - Bar
I love Jacques Brel's moving compassion (and this song's last line's reminder):
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1e...ish-subt_music
Hi Prince, a sharply observed and thought provoking (as well as contentious) poem. Thanks for sharing.
Sweet Bar,
Though it breaks my heart to do so, I fear I must disagree with your desire to remove the rubbish from the faces of the old. I fear that to replace it with rubies, would
a: completely change the meaning of the poem, and
b: replace a powerful word with an anodyne one.
Of course, given a poetic interpretation, rubies might actually be seen as blood leaking from the wounds of age, although this is a bit of a stretch and only likely in the eyes of those with darker hearts.
Now I would not presume to claim that I knew, categorically, what lay in Princes’ mind when he wrote the line, but I do know what it means to me.
The older one gets the greater the burden of regret, this is the rubbish I carry around. In unguarded moments it etches itself in deep lines on the face. On top of this there are the physical blemishes of ageing, that mar the once youthful pristine flesh. To those of us whose self image is frozen at about 25 or 30, looking in the mirror can give one a bit of a shock. Where did all this rubbish come from, we ask ourselves.
So, though I would rather die than argue with you, can we just agree to differ on this occasion.
Live and be well, H
Hawk, how come you prosper while you still vigorously argue with me! how is this possible at all! :)
I didn't suggest PM replace "rubbish" with "rubies" - and yes, his piece is clever and sharp, though again, interpreted, not observed, like all poetry is, licentia poetica oblige - I meant I'd prefer anything but "rubbish" ("rubies" was the first available alternative, and not at all anodyne!) - don't distort what I said!
I profoundly disagree :( with your generalisation:
"the older one gets the greater the burden of regret"
- it might be true for you, it's certainly not for me or for Ploni, etc... and even supposing I see someone carrying his or her "burden of regret", it's still not rubbish in my eyes, it's an emotion to be addressed, soothed if possible...
As to your:
"To those of us whose self image is frozen at about 25 or 30, looking in the mirror can give one a bit of a shock. Where did all this rubbish come from, we ask ourselves."
the last sentence is another generalisation, o Hawk. When looking into the mirror, we don't ALL ask ourselves where all this RUBBISH came from, some of us love our changing landscape, accept age, live to the utmost of what this or another stage in life makes available (sometimes we even break the boundries), enjoy differently, but enjoy truly... and it's certainly easier (and healthier) when we didn't freeze our image at 25 or 30 and don't compare.
Calling all this "rubbish" enfeebles and degrades one, is unproductive, doesn't help anything, but - you might say - "at least I don't lie to myself", "I'm realistic" - false! you aren't! you just pick up the worst option amid so many others available.
So I'm now running to the mirror for my daily loving check up (and count up!) - :redface:
Love your "rubbish", o Hawk, and you'll soon repent for having called "it" names! For your love will smooth what you look at as regretful asperities ...
With the wise support of:
Anacreon (c.572-488 BC)
AGE
OFT am I by the women told,
"Poor Anacreon! thou growest old;
Look; how thy hairs are falling all;
Poor Anacreon, how they fall!"--
Whether I grow old or no,
By the effects I do not know;
But this I know, without being told,
'Tis time to live, if i grow old;
'Tis time short pleasures now to take,
Of little life the best to make,
And manage wisely the last stake.
Love - Bar
Sweet Bar, I was forgetting you are a daughter of Zeus, a muse, immortal and without regret, forever preserved in perfection.
Forgive this mere mortal his regrets and conceits while he morns his lost youth :D
Eternally yours, a Hawk with droopy wings.
Please see my edited post. For the rest, I aim at completeness, not perfection, whether a Muse or a mere mortal...Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkman
But if I'm really "yours eternally"... come on, buck up! Your vigour serves me best! he he.
Bar
As for the poem, I think it's another perceptive snapshot of what 'baggage' people walk around with for all to see (and decypher as they see fit) - for most of us it's written there on our faces (those of us who do not subscribe to the use of make-up!!). Thought-provoking and subtle as ever, Prince.
H
Thanks, Daffy, Hawk, Hillwalker, and
I've looked at the three links you provided, but my response to you is to emphasize your use of "honestly" and "I see and choose" (emphasis added). Who is to judge when one is being "honest" or according to what standards? And, so often, what one "chooses" is what one needs or is predetermined to see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bar22do
And PS: The young man's "watery left eye" might serve as a hint at my own fallible eye.
I'm glad you've looked at the three links I provided.Quote:
Originally Posted by PrinceMyshkin
I could replace "honestly" with "sincerely" if it read better for you; now I'm aware you had a good reason to choose "rubbish" where hill would choose "baggage", and where my own personal preference would go with the latter (or tangle of history...), while I know exactly what you meant, though you wouldn't think it. I believe that to consciously decide which choices one makes is of prime importance; I recently read in a collection of Baal Shem Tov's thoughts that man was given the free choice only to learn to choose the good. I love the depth of this idea, beautifully presented and grounded, among many others, in Rabbi Nahman's story "The exchanged children" (which I warmly recommend to you).
Finally, let me remind you that except for the disagreeable (to me) "rubbish", I found your latest offering laudable and did commend you for it and now reiterate the commendation.
Best to you - Bar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bar22do
I had and have no reason to doubt your "honesty" nor your sincerity, but according to Abraham Maslow: "We cannot be more honest with others than we are with ourselves." And how honest can we be with ourselves when we are simultaneously the witness, the prosecutor, the defense attorney and the judge and jury of that "honesty"?
No, I wouldn't think it no more than I would think I know exactly why you see "rubies" where I believed I saw "rubbish." Either of us would have had t0o recapitulate the whole of the other's life-history to understand perfectly why he/she made one observation rather than another.Quote:
now I'm aware you had a good reason to choose "rubbish" where hill would choose "baggage", and where my own personal preference would go with the latter (or tangle of history...), while I know exactly what you meant, though you wouldn't think it.
I thank you for the appreciation you expressed and will look for Reb Nachman's story but in response to the Besht may I remind you of Spinoza's "We are free only to understand that we are not free."Quote:
I believe that to consciously decide which choices one makes is of prime importance; I recently read in a collection of Baal Shem Tov's thoughts that man was given the free choice only to learn to choose the good. I love the depth of this idea, beautifully presented and grounded, among many others, in Rabbi Nahman's story "The exchanged children" (which I warmly recommend to you).
Finally, let me remind you that except for the disagreeable (to me) "rubbish", I found your latest offering laudable and did commend you for it and now reiterate the commendation.
Best to you - Bar
The great Rabbi Mordechai Bimstein once said "freedom is slavery at its highest". Espinosa's thought on freedom completes the Besht's, but it's only when we look behind the words that we can begin to grasp, and grasp less than a dog's single lick from the ocean... Moses called himself "G'd's slave", for him freedom was to enable the divine element (you'll have to forgive me not to find a better term) to manifest freely through his medium, made relatively whole (not perfect). The whole Sufi tradition is based on the concept of freedom man gives the divinity to operate through him. But the idea behind is man search of wholeness and consequent breaking through to a broader picture of what's called Creation. Anyway, who's great enough for these things...!Quote:
Originally Posted by PrinceMyshkin
As to the question of "honesty", we all have preconceptions and project them, but our developed (developing) awareness enables us to take responsibility of how we interact with our surroundings and how we change this interaction into a more harmonious one.
We certainly are not subjected to our life history the moment we refuse to and take it as our duty to co-build it (and for the predetermination part, there is much wisdom in the old saying "since you cannot change the world, change your inner image of the world and then you'll change the world"). "My" "rubies" are more the effect of a continuing work on myself and the resulting conscious decision to focus on the positive and good in people, rather than the effect of a rose petals' carpeted life... And let me guess, if you'd only interacted with the couple, the first you'd do would be to smile at them and engage in conversation, and it would have been enough they return you a smile for you to erase all the rubbish from their faces and your own frustration, and to see beyond their dull, wrinkled puzzles, lives worthwhile living, complex and rich. In Hebrew "face" is "panim", meaning "inside"... But again, who's great enough for these things...
Be well - Bar
This is a) an objective possibility but b) more importantly the credo - however arrived at - of your belief in love and in the goodness of your fellow beings. But since of the 1,000s of people who cross my vision, I won't likely have the opportunity to investigate the inner lives of more than a few dozen of them, I'm forced to rely at times on split-second images of them as those images interact with whatever fleeting mood I'm in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bar22do
Feynman, Richard, quoted in Gleick, Genius: The life & Science of Richard Feynman, p. 438Quote:
"I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong... I don't have to know an answer. I don't feel frightened by not knowing things, by being lost in a mysterious universe without any purpose, which is the way it really is as far as I can tell. It doesn't frighten me."
Prince, I'm happy that you've disagreed with what I said! It wasn't meant in an ugly sense, but you have, as ever, explained it with rapier-like precision. I shall walk out backwards, bowing!! Well done, my liege!
Can't imagine what you're referring to. The last comment you made hereQuote:
Originally Posted by dafydd manton
doesn't contain anything I disagree with.Quote:
Funnily enough, (and I cringe at disagreeing with Bar), I preferred Rubbish. I think I know exactly what you mean. I used to be a bus-driver, and I got people like that on the bus all day. Great Image!! (Sorry Bar, Respect!)
I haven't read any posts but I'm in awe of someone who gets 639 replies to their poem!!