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I agree with everything you say. In fact one could just look at royalty to see examples of men who fulfill the alpha role without being crude about it. Look at Prince William. He is uber-alpha but he's not a cave man/thug.Quote:
Originally Posted by tonywalt
I think that "alpha male" is a stupid term (this isn't 50,000 BC, nor are we packs of dogs), but if the characteristics that describe an "alpha male" include strength of character, that's what I like.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scheherazade
It is a really stupid term though. You mean people are attracted to those who look good and aren't neurotic?!? Gasp, shock, and awe! We'd better find an evolutionary explination for such an otherwise unexplainable trend!
To account for the term itself, I think there's a strong element of romanticism it. It stirs images of primal society which is fun I guess, modern society is pretty dull. There's also the dissociation factor. If you can explain something in scientific terms, you can make human interaction like a mechanical system with parts and processes to be identified, which detatches you from the whole equation. Part A is Female, Part B is Alpha, Part C is Beta, and the parts interact like so, it's all so simple.
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Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandis
Exactly, you guys get it. I hate it when I'm included in this big conglomerate of other people with whom all I have in common is my gender, like all women are part of a gigantic hive-mind. I value my sense of self, and stereotypes strip you of that. You're nothing, you're a "woman" and that's all of your identity. It's like a cage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta40
EXACTLY. That's all I was trying to say in my last long post. Putting aside the inanity of the term "alpha male" (and I will use it since there's no better term I can think of, except I'll shorten it to just "alpha"), why wouldn't a woman want to date one labeled as such? Like I said, I was pretty much *****ing because, aside from intelligence, I fit no "alpha male" category. I don't have much money, I'm meek, and hell, I'm disabled, the latter of which is the complete antithesis of alpha-ness in any species.Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniperWoolf
Which is why I find a woman saying "I don't date alpha-males" funny. It'd be dumb not to. Does it mean one will marry an alpha? Of course not. A guy can be wealthy, intelligent, charismatic, and an a-hole all at the same time. This whole conversation began by asking what traits someone found initially attractive, i.e., what do you look for in a mate--if you're not looking for alpha qualities when you're doing that first inspection, well, I think you're being dumb. And since I can hear someone ask me, "Well, if that's true, how do non-alphas find mates?" I'd answer that there're a ton of ways relationships get started besides people looking to meet someone in a bar.
Fair enough, we can all easily drop the word Alpha, and replace it with "Men who generally attract a relatively high percentage of women ("Attractive Men"). It fits perfectly with the title of the thread. Done.
Again, Che Guevara's video is the best example of how an Attractive Man presents himself, makes Eye Contact, speaks, uses humour, body language.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMkoLLeng6A
I am happy to hear the girls view? Juniper, Py, Helga, Cacian, Juniper, Scheherazade, Pensive, Babyguile?- would Che not be seen as generally attractive to a high percentage of females, who may or may not include yourself? As I hope I am better explaining what many, but not all women would describe as an attractive man
Why does it matter to you if this man or that particular man is found attractive by any of us? Why? This is an exercise in stereotpying. If Juniper or caican say they would fall at the feet of Che Guavera because they find him simply irresistable what would that prove? I'll find three women who aren't attracted to him.
Why come into a thread that was not made for you and berate female opinion? To discuss the bull**** concept of 'alpha males' is to partake in an exercise of stereotyping vast swathes of women. It is a concept I've never heard any female articulate and, coupled with the varied tastes in men that they evidently have, I think any further mention of 'alpha males' should be swiftly followed by a three month isolation in the Cold Ale Bloke's Thread.
Maybe we should have gender apartheid on this section of the forum then all the boys can use themselves to stroke their own egos like they usually do.
http://s16.postimage.org/cewfhazfp/arguecat.png
^ Because it is absolutely fascinating. It's about Le Difference, a subject that engages us all.
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Originally Posted by tonywalt
Very finely put. Im surprised so many women don't know what an alpha male is and beta male is. In my mind however the epitome of the Alpha male is this man: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine...uis_de_Lasalle
Also I think it is wrong to define an alpha male primarily by the fact that woman are attracted to him; as that is a by product of something else which is, charisma is too weak, so let me call it an aura, which has an effect upon all men around him. Merely being around this man changed the men and women around him, for better or worse. Sometimes everyone around him is filled with fear and substance other-times it is courage and virtue.
I always think of Odysseus as the proto Alpha. Not Homer's Odysseus but rather Dante's - where that intangible aura around him shows that the only thing more infectious than fear is true courage, and he has men who are willing to follow him to the end of the earth, not because he convinces them or because they simply trust him; but he is able to imbue in them the same passions which stir his heart and make every man around him into a god. Simply due to that intangible presence, like the stars in the night sky.
Of course Odysseus would be representative of the harmonious and virtuous alpha, there are many types as I have said before. The antithesis to Odysseus's Virtuous Alpha would be Milton's Satan, who possesses the same Alpha type as had Alexander The Great, to wit; the megalomaniac alpha. One need merle look at the similar results of the two's exploits and their effect on the men/angels around them at the beginning and at the end.
I have only talked of Male alpha's but in female society there is equally and alpha element. Amongst men it is more pronounced as men have more of a natural instinct for hierarchy, but simply because female alpha's are not as overt as male alpha's, do not think that there are none. They are there and every guy will know which girl is the alpha. Some famous Alphas from history here would be Cleopatra, or Queen Elizabeth I
In short an Alpha is the type of person whom once you meet, you never forget, because unlike everyone else, they do not deserve to be forgotten.
That is a very romantic view of history is it not? It says he snook behind enemy lines to sleep with an Austrian noblewoman. Is that supposed to be admirable?
No single man acts alone. Sure you can have people with good leadership and in those times, if you claimed a higher purpose, men would follow you absolutely (for a time), and men would follow men who followed you. Think of Joan of Arc.
Odysseus is fictional and romanticised. I don't get it.
Do you mean LA Difference?Quote:
Originally Posted by prendrelemick
Hi tonywalt just the name Che Guevara gives me the creeps sorry. Not my idea of attractive at all. NOQuote:
Originally Posted by tonywalt
To be honest I never what's attractive until I see one. I now know attractive which for is mix of looks charms humour personality attitude and general feeling/aura niceness generosity and cooleness of the person.
I have never had a type in my head and I never relate to pictures or images or TV looks. I find them too fake almost plastic and so I am lucky I do not have crushes on people that removed from my immediat reality so I have to say I never understand people who have crushes or fancy people off a magasine or television .
An example of what I mean is Beiber fever what this is all about is beyond my logic. I do not understand it and it scares me to think that people can relate to fake.
An attractive man is beyond descriptions and words one has to live it and feel it and it gets better everyday every minute you are with them and that is attractiveness for me.
Congratulations, you read the first paragraph. There is much more though. He is arguably one of the bravest men in history.Quote:
That is a very romantic view of history is it not? It says he snook behind enemy lines to sleep with an Austrian noblewoman. Is that supposed to be admirable?
There is a difference between following you, and willing to die for you.Quote:
No single man acts alone. Sure you can have people with good leadership and in those times, if you claimed a higher purpose, men would follow you absolutely (for a time), and men would follow men who followed you. Think of Joan of Arc.
So something possesses no didactical value unless it is real?Quote:
Odysseus is fictional and romanticised. I don't get it.
I think he means, la différence, but we shouldn't be too pedantic. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by cacian
True true although very temptively that LA looks very much like Los Angeles but that's beside the point just felt like saying it.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Emil Miller
I don't think I've ever read a Wikipedia article from head-to-toe and I'd like to keep it that way. Also, I'm not the kind of person who trawls through the annals of history in order to find a hero I can look up to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander III
Didactical value? I'm asking you to prove to me that alpha males exist. Nobody would die for Colin Firth. Also it's utterly laughable that you used Odysseus as an example. What frame of mind where you in when you read about Odysseus from Dante and Homer? For example did you read The Odyssey because you had finished Lord of the Rings and wanted a good sword and sorcery tale to see you off to bed? :goof: If you want to know what the true function of Greek mythology was, and what the didactical motives of tales of Odysseus, Medea, Agamemnon, Heracles etc. were then read Women in Athenian Law and Life by Roger Just.Quote:
There is a difference between following you, and willing to die for you. So something possesses no didactical value unless it is real?
Hello????? How was that conclusion gotten to? At what point did any woman on here say "I don't date alpha males"? This thread is about what we are attracted too at first. What is absolutely perplexing, and what has started this crapstorm is that guys on this site have the audacity to tell me (and the rest of us) I'm wrong and that we are lying about what we find attractive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandis
Seriously? Che? Couldn't find anybody in this century?Quote:
Originally Posted by tonywalt
Che is a cultural icon because of a picture, admitedly at first glance it's a cool picture but in all seriousness it says nothing about the man himself. Which is kinda been the point the last few pages. Yes there may be an initial attraction, but that isn't the end of it. You can't make a life on initial attraction. At first glance that's a cool picture but once you find out the actual living breathing man that picture isn't so cool anymore.
Perplexing isn't?Quote:
Originally Posted by Babyguile
1) We get it you don't like me.Quote:
I don't think I've ever read a Wikipedia article from head-to-toe and I'd like to keep it that way. Also, I'm not the kind of person who trawls through the annals of history in order to find a hero I can look up to.
2) I do spend various hours everyday reading pages from head -to-toe of wikipedia, and I fail to see what is wrong with that.
3)Hero to worship? Do you not understand history? When I look back at various historical figures and examine their lives it is not in pursuit of a hero to worship, as if they were some 21st century Justin Beibers, I find men who lead inspirational lives and remind one about the true potential of a human life. If anything it is a motivator, everyday because I know of these men I am pushed to not settle for mere existence but to go beyond the norm. With what dignity can I say I am tired or in pain when I exercise, when I recall to mind that Roosevelt got shot and before going to the hospital finished his speech. When anger takes hold of me and I would strike another, I remember the Marcus Aurelieus and Gahndi and how they tamed their harmfull passions. When I read of DeLassale who said that any hussar which lived past the age of 30 was a coward, or when he would as a general lead the charge with a pipe rather than a sword in his hand, how can I bring myself to fear death when I see in history so many men who isntead of falling to their knees smilled back at death like equalls. Great men of the past serve to remind us that though we are but the sustenance of worms, we posses the potential of the Gods.
Prove to you that alpha males exist? Now it all makes sense. First how you did not wish to specify your gender to Mutatis, and now this strange behavior of yours, it all makes sense, you are an alien sent to study the human race are you not? Ha! J'acsuse !Quote:
Didactical value? I'm asking you to prove to me that alpha males exist.
I think it would have to do with him being an actor, and not a general or political rebel leader like Che Guevera. Nobody would have died for einstein either. That does not mean he was worthless, it means he was a scientist. Oh silly alien, how your deception falls when it becomes so apparent that you know so little of mankind.Quote:
Nobody would die for Colin Firth.
I actually got into Greek literature because the homo-erotic aspects of it made my little richard tingle and feel nice.Quote:
Also it's utterly laughable that you used Odysseus as an example. What frame of mind where you in when you read about Odysseus from Dante and Homer? For example did you read The Odyssey because you had finished Lord of the Rings and wanted a good sword and sorcery tale to see you off to bed? :goof:
Silly Alien, thinking that behind human religion and art there is function....silly alien, all art is useless.Quote:
If you want to know what the true function of Greek mythology was, and what the didactical motives of tales of Odysseus, Medea, Agamemnon, Heracles etc. were then read Women in Athenian Law and Life by Roger Just.