Do You Believe In the paranormal and Did you ever experience supernatural Phenomena?

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Originally Posted by papayahed

Your links don't really help all that much, it's all pretty vague with tons of links to books or other websites.

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That's because there have been millions of claims of paranormality/supernatural. You're not going to get a one-page answer to the investigations of claims.

I guarantee you that if you follow the information contained in those sites and their links, all of your questions will be answered. Those people - even the parapsychology ones - are university funded researchers with worldwide recognition as leaders in the fields of paranormality and human psychology research. (Except for James Randi - he's a magician who's spent his life investigating claims)

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Originally Posted by Shalot

That's a good theory except that it wasn't aerosol. It was Rave super hold in the pump bottle and the lid wasn't on the bottle. it was on the tub. And a curious alien who is observing earthlings might hang out in the john just to see what us humans are up to. It could happen. :D

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Well, I'd be fairly sure there's a rational answer in there. Without seeing the site, products and circumstances, I wouldn't know, but I used the plastic cap as an example because I know that sort of thing has happened in the past. Like pictures "jumping" off walls because something has strecthed over time.

Anything could happen, it's just how likely it is.

:)

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Originally Posted by The Atheist

That's because there have been millions of claims of paranormality/supernatural. You're not going to get a one-page answer to the investigations of claims.

I guarantee you that if you follow the information contained in those sites and their links, all of your questions will be answered. Those people - even the parapsychology ones - are university funded researchers with worldwide recognition as leaders in the fields of paranormality and human psychology research. (Except for James Randi - he's a magician who's spent his life investigating claims)

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That's the point, what I've seen from those links don't have any hard evidence that would propel me to read further.

The Richard Wiseman link has two paranormal studies listed. The results I've quoted below :

Hampton Court:

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Results revealed that:

- people consistently experienced unusual sensations in certain locations

- people who believed in the existence of ghosts reported more experiences than disbelievers

- some of these experiences were caused by natural phenomena, such as subtle draughts and changes in air temperature.

- there was some tentative evidence linking the locations in which participants reported their experiences with certain types of geomagnetic activity.

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The Vaults:

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Results revealed that:

- people who believed in ghosts reported more experiences than disbelievers.

- participants consistently reported unusual sensations in the ‘haunted’ vaults.

- there were some correlations between the number of experiences reported in each cell and certain environmental attributes, such as air movement and the visual appearance of the vaults.

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Then it goes on to say that there are two photos that contained curious anomalies which can't be explained and asking if anybody can help.


If I wanted to convince somebody I'd throw in a few statistics. "Some" is not that quantifiable.

Now if I'm suppossed to be convinced that all paranormal activity has been shown to have logical explanations then perhaps you should leave this link out.

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Originally Posted by The Atheist

(Except for James Randi - he's a magician who's spent his life investigating claims)

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what is your view of magic??

If you mean 'me' by ghost/paranormal, sure. But if you mean to go by the usual definition of ghosts/magic and all that stuff, then no, I neither believe nor disbelieve in them.

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Originally Posted by The Atheist

Well, I'd be fairly sure there's a rational answer in there. Without seeing the site, products and circumstances, I wouldn't know, but I used the plastic cap as an example because I know that sort of thing has happened in the past. Like pictures "jumping" off walls because something has strecthed over time.

Anything could happen, it's just how likely it is.

:)

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I already gave you a rational explanation - a ghost was trying to get my attention and threw it at me.

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Originally Posted by Shalot

I already gave you a rational explanation - a ghost was trying to get my attention and threw it at me.

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Can't help wondering why the ghost especially chose a plastic cap to get your attention... There must be a significance to that, surely? Maybe the brand name or maybe the colour? Or even maybe the person the can belongs to?

Oh, this is surely case for Scherlock! :D

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Originally Posted by mazHur

what is your view of magic??

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One of the best forms of entertainment ever! Thank you Harry Houdini, the father of modern magic.

Just to sidetrack onto magic - which is based on illusion and trickery, no "magic" - it was actually Houdini who got me started on researching paranormality. (No, I'm not that old!) I'd been fascinated by films on Houdini as a kid and read about him, which obviously included his firm belief that the supernatural was a fraud.

Do you ever wonder why professional magicians are so vehemently anti-paranormality?

Harry Houdini, Penn Jillette, James Randi, Chris Angel, Jon Zealando, Banachek; the list just goes on and on. Almost without exception, professional magicians don't just disbelieve the paranormal, they actively challenge it constantly.

Funny how all those people who admit their magic is illusory have such disdain for charlatans.

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Originally Posted by papayahed

Now if I'm suppossed to be convinced that all paranormal activity has been shown to have logical explanations then perhaps you should leave this link out.

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Like I said, that's the place to start - you'd need to read his books as well. A good one with Wiseman is to Google his name - you'll find links to the meta-analysis Ganzfeld which is where the scientific research is.

I repeat, this is not something that can be explained in five minutes. The James Randi site alone would take months to go through all of the information there. While Randi's no scientist, there are thousands of links to scientific articles.

i still havn't had any reply from the opponents of 'supernatural' on as to the calamity befalling the pigeon on touching! Well, that's no magic, no trick. All was extempore and is substantiated by speaking evidence.

As for professional 'magicians', they are adepts and tricksters.
Remember Disney Show,
The Hand is faster than the Eye!
It surely is!
but herre we are talking about paranormal or unusual experiences witnessed by someone and supported by solid evidence!

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Originally Posted by mazHur

i still havn't had any reply from the opponents of 'supernatural' on as to the calamity befalling the pigeon on touching! Well, that's no magic, no trick. All was extempore and is substantiated by speaking evidence.

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Originally Posted by mazHur

I am witness to a paranormal scene

Wild healthy and active pigeons loosely held in hand when released were not able to take off for considerable time,,,,some took upto one hour, others more,and some could only flit,,very few could take a straight dive into the sky,,,and the one that was first 'touched' couldn't even move! Instead, his eyes bulged out, red as fire, he trembled and his neck elongated to double its length so I could count every digit of his vertebrae, his feathers fluffed, the shine of his feathers dulled down to a deadly fade! I shoes him, shouted , made noise but nothing would make him budge, He was just dying!


It was horrible. All this happened in the presence of 6 other people in my house! I picked up the dying pigeon and gently placed him in the open so that he could get away. But ot my amazement he just couldnt move! My staff and I stood afar watching as to what happened next but the weird bird won't move from its place! Then suddently a cat then a dog tried to approach him but to our amazement they turned back after taking a few steps ahead and went their way without coming near the bird! The place where the bird 'stood' was an open field ,,,,,,with no other people or noise there! this happened about 12 years ago!

How would my friends here explain this? Atleast i can't figure out what happened to the bird and why the bird could'nt fly,,,why it began to die??:D

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Sounds very much like the birds had been poisoned. That would go with the reaction of dogs & cats as well.

Maybe Shalot's alien/ghost was tired of throwing plastic lids and decided to kill some pigeons?

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Originally Posted by The Atheist

Sounds very much like the birds had been poisoned. That would go with the reaction of dogs & cats as well.

Maybe Shalot's alien/ghost was tired of throwing plastic lids and decided to kill some pigeons?

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No. I'm telling you the truth. I, along with 3 other men, rode to the bird market and bought 4 very healthy ,smart and wild pigeons myself. The bird seller lightly tied their feet with jute string and put them in a paper bag so that I could carry them home. Within 15 minutes I reached my house., took out a pigeon and told my wife to hold it so that I could undo the string. I had hardly undid the knot that my wife screamed, ''hey, look what's going on with the pigeon'! My other friends also saw all this happening. I told my wife not to hold the pigeon tightly at which she opened her fist and said, ''I havnt held him tight, look!" Oh, the pigeon lay on her palm unable to move,,just like a dead mouse! Finding this i told my wife to put the pigeon on the ground which she did. To the horror of all present, the pigeon 'puffed' up ist feathers, all shine having gone, he was having convulsions,his neck started elongating and i could even count his neck vertebrae, his eyes were swollen red like burning coal and protruding; he was unable to move! Sighting this no one dare touch the mysterious pigeon so i had to request my wife to pick it up and gently 'place' it outdoors. She did ,,all of us accompanied her. then we hid near out gate and watched what happened next. The haunted pigeon did not take a step here or there, just lay in the open where he was put. I saw a dog then a cat advancing towards him but suddenly both of them turned back and fled!
We waited to see what went on with the haunted pigeon until darkness began to fall. He stayed there like the' king of the dead,' still convulsing and motionless!
Next morning I went there to have a look at him but he was gone! Gone but where?? Why it took him so long to ''go'' wherever his final destination was?? Why a pye dog and a cat won't come near him?

After observing the fate of the first pigeon, i tried the experiment with the other 3 pigeons. The second one did not die but could fly when released, showing that he was affected by some unknown spell but not as much as the first pigeon. The third bird showed less degree of affection while the
fourth one when released just took a straight dive into the sky and was gone!

Again, I repeated this experiment at a friend's house in another city,,,the pigeons which he gave me could not fly but just flitted and sat for hours on a branch or wall, however none of them died or had the same deadly condition which the first bird manifested.


I still cant figure out why this happened or can even happen if I tried it again! No magic, boy!

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Originally Posted by mazHur

No. I'm telling you the truth.

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I'm sure you are.

The bad news is that as any court of law in the world will show you, unsupported anecdotes form only very weak evidence. What's to investigate? We have your word alone, which I'm not going to question.

If you had thought a real paranormal event had occurred, why didn't you keep the bird/s and bag and take the birds to a vet immediately? There will be any number of quite rational reasons why the whole thing may have happened, but without anything concrete, it becomes one of millions of unexplained stories.

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Originally Posted by The Atheist

I'm sure you are.

The bad news is that as any court of law in the world will show you, unsupported anecdotes form only very weak evidence. What's to investigate? We have your word alone, which I'm not going to question.

If you had thought a real paranormal event had occurred, why didn't you keep the bird/s and bag and take the birds to a vet immediately? There will be any number of quite rational reasons why the whole thing may have happened, but without anything concrete, it becomes one of millions of unexplained stories.

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so, you agree that 'unexplainable' things do happen...does anyone on the links provided by you ever suggest a 'sscientific reason' for such things?

Here in Pakistan, human life is so cheap that who the heck is going to care for the poor birds!

the most disturbing thing is that even today if I try the experiment the bird may suffer! Could you please send a Vet or advise the guys at Guiness to witness the scene?

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Originally Posted by mazHur

so, you agree that 'unexplainable' things do happen...does anyone on the links provided by you ever suggest a 'sscientific reason' for such things?

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No, I don't agree that unexplainable things happen - I said lots of things remain unexplained, as will your pigeons, since the evidence is only your word.

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Originally Posted by mazHur

Here in Pakistan, human life is so cheap that who the heck is going to care for the poor birds!

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I suspect that's being a little disingenuous, since there are plenty of vets in Pakistan, with a long-established society, and veterinary universities.

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Originally Posted by mazHur

the most disturbing thing is that even today if I try the experiment the bird may suffer! Could you please send a Vet or advise the guys at Guiness to witness the scene?

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Well, if you can still do it, then it's your ticket to fame and fortune! At last count, there is over $US5,000,000 available to anyone able to display a genuine paranrmal ability.

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Originally Posted by The Atheist

No, I don't agree that unexplainable things happen - I said lots of things remain unexplained, as will your pigeons, since the evidence is only your word.



I suspect that's being a little disingenuous, since there are plenty of vets in Pakistan, with a long-established society, and veterinary universities.



Well, if you can still do it, then it's your ticket to fame and fortune! At last count, there is over $US5,000,000 available to anyone able to display a genuine paranrmal ability.

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I didn't say there are no Vets in Pakistan, I just said who cares for life here,,,and that too of a bird! The Vets are not that serious folks
here to look at such matters with awe and sincerity

I can still perform the 'feat' but don't feel like 'harming' the innocent birds for the sake of money. I'm greatly intrigued and want to discover as to why pigeons suffered?

thanks goodness I didnt have that capability with regard to humans otherwise I would be the most ''dreaded person' in the world!!
But, I hate getting Midas' ears for touching somelthing for money!;)

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Originally Posted by The Atheist

Like I said, that's the place to start - you'd need to read his books as well. A good one with Wiseman is to Google his name - you'll find links to the meta-analysis Ganzfeld which is where the scientific research is.

I repeat, this is not something that can be explained in five minutes. The James Randi site alone would take months to go through all of the information there. While Randi's no scientist, there are thousands of links to scientific articles.

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Nothing on wisemans website has even remotely convinced me that I should follow the links. As I mentioned previously the research he posted was wildly inconclusive and there was no information to back anything up. I have no reason to believe that his links are anything but the same.