Printable View
I'm not sure where to draw the line between the Modernists and post-Modernists in music, but I assume that some of my favorites, like Carter, Ligeti, and Xenakis, would be considered distinct from the ur-Modernists like Schoenberg and Sessions. However, since you seem more comfortable talking about the visual arts, I don't want to make any rash assumptions about the matter when it comes to music.Quote:
Originally Posted by stlukesguild
Regards,
Istvan
A nice track that I've recently stumbled upon is Gabriel Fauré's Cantique de Jean Racine, and I'm like, "I love Faure. I love Racine. Two great tastes that taste great together. It's like the Reese's peanut butter cup of music."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WpPBym_n2Y
It's also about God, and I'm all for that guy.
I don't think I'm alone in the delight I receive whenever two or more of my interests converge. I love movies. I love music and I love it when they go together (such as they do in these two clips).
Waltz With Bashir, Bach Concerto No. 5 in F Minor for Harpsichord and Strings
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVgYHfqUk8M
Se7en, Bach Suite No. 3 in D Major
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjq1i0YTT1g
I'm not sure where to draw the line between the Modernists and post-Modernists in music, but I assume that some of my favorites, like Carter, Ligeti, and Xenakis, would be considered distinct from the ur-Modernists like Schoenberg and Sessions. However, since you seem more comfortable talking about the visual arts, I don't want to make any rash assumptions about the matter when it comes to music.
Of course the line between Modernism and Post-Modernism is equally blurred in the visual arts... although it seems that one can be fairly certain that some artists clearly fall under the definition of "Modernist" (Mark Rothko, for example) while other artists such as Andy Warhol represent something entirely different... and not necessarily better in my book. I would also suggest that Post-Modernism is far less easy to define than Modernism and lacks any discernible dominant philosophy or style. While it seems that we cannot easily define what is happening now, it does seem clear that it is something new... that Modernism is essentially dead... but only dead in the way that the Renaissance was "dead" in art by 1530. I suspect we are in a period not unlike that of Mannerism (which followed the Renaissance)... a period in which there is a great deal of confusion... a taking stock of what has happened in art and what it means... what potentials it offers... where art should be heading. There are artists/composers who continue to work in a manner that is clearly rooted in Modernism. There are others who have rejected it or turned against it... and there are still more who embrace all it has to offer, but see it as just one more possibility within the whole of possibilities open to the artist/composer.
I'm currently listening to the piano music of Charles Koechlin:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2698/...0f11be70_o.jpg
Koechlin is one of those composers who is lost in the shadows of the giants of the time... in his case it was in the shadows of Debussy, Ravel, and Faure. Many of these "lesser" artists, however, produced more than a few works of real beauty as well as the occasional piece of genius. Koechlin wrote some absolutely exquisite music. I'm not overly thrilled with his orchestral compositions, but his chamber music and his works for solo piano (and solo flute) are truly magical.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofUKzA9Ttqk
Speaking of unsung composers, Nikos Skalkottas of Greece never got the attention he was due. His complex blend of Modernist methods and Greek music is amazing.
http://www.skfe.com/aifs/aifs/photos...as_bis1244.jpg
Largo Sinfonico (1944) Part I
Largo Sinfonico (1944) Part II
Largo Sinfonico (1944) Part III
It was decades after his early death before anyone bothered to catalog his eloquent, accomplished music.
Regards,
Istvan
Come on guys, any thoughts on operatic translations into English, do you think it's much of a problem or is it not really an issue?
Speaking of unsung composers, Nikos Skalkottas of Greece never got the attention he was due. His complex blend of Modernist methods and Greek music is amazing.
I just came across Skalkottas' work myself... probably over at Talk Classical. I am intrigued and have added a few works to my wish list after listening to samples on Amazon.
Come on guys, any thoughts on operatic translations into English, do you think it's much of a problem or is it not really an issue?
Operatic translations... Hmmm? I tend to go for operas in the original language... but there are instances historically in which the composer actually created a version in a second language. Off the top of my head I know that Gluck's Orpheo exists in French and Italian... and I have a collection of arias sung by the inimitable Fritz Wunderlich in which he sings some well-known Italian arias in German. And then there's Schubert's Ave Maria which was written in German, Latin... and I've heard in English. As a reader of poetry in translation I have long argued that translation brings a work which might otherwise be unavailable to a new audience. If it is done well, it is not unlike a transcription in music... from piano to violin, shall we say? One will need to rewrite the score... perhaps even change the notes... but in the end (hopefully) the music remains.
I can see nothing wrong with translating more operatic scores... especially when one considers that in many cases they do not stand up well as brilliant works of literature on their own. I can see nothing wrong with translating the recitatives and the unaccompanied dialog, especially. Somehow, however, I imagine that the music to an aria owes something to the specific words of the given original language and it would seemingly be incredibly difficult to translate these while retaining a similar flow of sounds... stresses of accent... vowels... consonants, etc...
Thanks, you've sort of confirmed what I was thinking here a little. I've got a chance to see either Don Pasquale, The Marriage of Figaro or A Midsummer Night's Dream as done by the English Touring Opera, performed in English. I'm going for The Marriage of Figaro though I would have preferred to see this in the original language with the aid of stage sub-titles, though really I haven't got the option to be that fussy when it comes down to it - we're not flooded with operas at the moment - at least it looks like a decent production.
Neely... how far are you from London? I looked up Sheffield on the map and see it is a good bit to the north... but there was no key as to distance.
It is about 160 miles, if you can get a direct train it will take about 2-3 hours. Are you thinking of Operas in London, might be an idea? I've only been to London once as it happens - a trip to see Romeo and Juliet one time, it probably comes down to cost though, but I've heard that students can get a deal on the trains.
London is only 160 miles away and you've only been there once??!! That blows my mind. I guess it is just that America is such a car-based culture and so huge comparatively that such distances seem like nothing. 3 years ago I lived some 40 miles away from my work and drove that distance twice a day. Pittsburgh is probably about 150 miles away and I have bee there 5 or 10 times... and certainly their art collections cannot match London. Washington D.C. and New York are both about 500 miles away and I probably visit them each 2 or 3 times a year. If I was 160 miles from London I'd be there virtually every other weekend. Certainly, London must have the greatest musical scene in the world. Looking at the various orchestras, operas, etc... I don't think that even Vienna can compete.
Yes that’s a fair point I suppose. I still tend to think that London is far away, though when you think it is just over 3 hours on a train there really isn’t much excuse for not getting down their more often. Certainly I’ve a strong desire to get the art galleries and the theatres, particularly The Globe, as well as the tourist things such as the Tower of London and Parliament even, at least once.
I think it is partly to do with having other places of interest much closer to home though as well, stuff that the kids will probably better enjoy like the Peak District National Park which is not 10 miles away, really there are loads of fabulous places there of outstanding natural beauty, which is perhaps second best only to the Lake District in the entire country. http://images.google.co.uk/images?hl...EQsAQwAwWithin In the Peaks there are tons of little villages and picturesque views, picnic spots, walks, cycle routes, lakes, reservoirs and stately homes such as Chatsworth House:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatsworth_House
Which has been used to film various Austen productions – really the house inside is quite stunning - you can stay there all day and enjoy the interior and exterior, relax in the garden by the fountain and pretend you are Mr Darcy and let the kids roam a little. Also there’s the likes of Haddon Hall http://www.haddonhall.co.uk/ which is a medieval manor house quite stunning but on a smaller scale to Chatsworth. As well as this there are 10s of other such houses, ruins such as Castleton, which is more or less a second home, certainly in the summer:
http://www.derbyshireuk.net/castleton.html
So much so that you never really get bored of just being around these places.
On top of this about 45 miles away, one hour by train lies York which we visit again quite regularly. The museums there are quite good and the medieval feel of the Shambles never loses its appeal.http://www.insideyork.co.uk/shambles
Then the likes of North Yorkshire, the coastal areas, Leeds, Manchester, Liverpool, counties like Shropshire are within reach (though not been there yet) as well as the wonderful Lakes District etc, are all quite close by train so there are plenty of distractions and places to visit which has sought to keep me from London in the past - though this year hopefully I’ll get down more often.
Edit: Oh, and I must get to Oxford and Cambridge, so I can hang out with the clever people and soak up the atmosphere...
The question of mobility probably has much to do with the scale of Europe and the fact that so many cities are packed closely together. We have so many vast sprawling spaces here that European visitors are always stunned by... and in comparison to the lands west of the Mississippi we are are crowded. The first time my wife flew to New York she looked out the window and commented that it was such a shame... "all this land ruined by strip mining"... until she realized that all that "black" beneath us in Pennsylvania was forest... not coal.:hand: The drive from Cleveland to New York is about 500 miles (around 8 hours by car, or 45 minutes by plane) and following route 80... the major interstate highway... one will not encounter a single major city along the entire route until one hits the surrounding counties of New York. This immense scale is one of the things that has led to big sprawling houses and huge automobiles (one must be comfortable on these long drives). Its certainly has much to do with defining who we are: where Europe has the history... the endless monuments and artifacts... we have the endless wonders of nature. Emerson, Walt Whitman, the Hudson River Valley painters... and even the sprawling canvases of the Abstract Expressionists are surely rooted in this. And here I am... a typical American... far more seduced by the cultural side of this Culture/Nature divide.:sosp:
I'm currently going through a Russian fix. I just finished Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto and now I'm listening to a collection of his songs. I've always had a mixed reaction to the Russians. I often find them too emotional... to lax... too sprawling (perhaps this relates to that Sprawling Nature vs Structured Culture dichotomy). Or perhaps I heard the stuff too often as a teenager. Either way... I have no doubts about the merit of Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto... or his songs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gh4efVD3R_E&translated=1
Two of my most recent CD purchases resulted in a spectacular padding out of my collection of French Impressionist music. For whatever reason, Sony has been marketing boxed sets of Pierre Boulez' inimitable recordings at grossly undervalued prices. One can also pick up on his performances of Berg, Schoenberg, Webern, Carter, Mahler, and his own music if your tastes lean in that direction. I ordered the sets of Debussy and Ravel. The sets number 4 and 5 discs respectively, with the Debussy set including the entire recording of his opera, Pelléas et Mélisande, which I have wanted to get my hands on for some time. I believe I paid about $10 US for the Ravel and $13 for he Debussy through secondary dealers on Amazon.com. That's less than many single discs go for. Considering the fact that these recordings are second to none (although Charles Dutoit's recordings are of equal merit) and include recordings with my own beloved Cleveland Orchestra (as well as the New York Philharmonic and the BBC Symphonu Orchestra... among other ensembles) I cannot recommend these highly enough for anyone interested:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4069/...de6d4b69_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2715/...8d51804a_o.jpg
Beside my Leopardi book arriving today the federal income tax return cam as well. It's something like Christmas in March.:banana: As a result I went a little nuts and bought a whole slew of music from secondary dealers on Amazon... including a goodly amount of Mozart. I think perhaps I'm undergoing an experience not unlike the proverbial prodigal son... returning home after straying... or in this case... returning to my first musical loves after having spent so much time recently exploring modern, contemporary, and unknown composers. I have long been enamored of Mozart's Great Mass in C and his marvelous Requiem... but for some reason I have never explored the rest of his choral oeuvre... in spite of being an absolute choral fanatic... and in spite of exploring the choral works of Mozart's great peer, Haydn, in greater depth. As such, I began by rectifying this shortcoming with this purchase:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4045/...2f8bd189_o.jpg
After that I focused upon the operas. With the exception of his piano concertos and a few other works such as the clarinet quintet and clarinet concerto, I have long felt that Mozart's greatest achievement by far is to be found in his operas... so I decided to look into three collections of his opera arias by three of the most exquisite singers:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2731/...a922a119_o.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4050/...0f233f3e_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2690/...a5f64883_o.jpg
Kozena and Bartloi are surely two of the finest and most intelligent singers performing today... while Lucia Popp was one of those shooting stars who tragically died far, far too young.:frown5:
Then completely loosing all sense of self control I ended up looking at Rene Jacobs' HIP (historically informed performances) recordings of Mozart's great late operas. Building upon a profound study of the music, instrumentation, and performance style of Mozart's age, these recording employ period instruments, appropriate scaled orchestration (stripped back down from the grandiose orchestrations that have little to do with the orchestra as Mozart understood it, and much more to do with the sprawling orchestras of Wagner, Mahler, Richard Strauss, and the late Romantic era. The music is also performed with a certain "muscularity"... and a sense of humor and fun... rather than with such reverent delicacy which led Maria Callas to comment that so many sing Mozart as if they were standing on tip-toe. These recordings were all highly recommended and I had a chance to listen to them in part and to discuss their merits with an HIP fan over on an internet music forum. I found myself tor between the three great late opera (Jacobs has yet to record The Magic Flute) and so my solution...
buy all three!!:yikes::blush2::ack2::banana:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4067/...4a94d833_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2764/...30fe91e2_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2752/...fefda72d_o.jpg
Anticipating their arrival, I've spent the afternoon listening to this equally... if quite different... recording:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4007/...51e22274_o.jpg
I am always left stunned by the final scene in which the Duke asks for and is given absolution for all his philandering. I am always reminded of Salieri's description of this scene in the film, Amadeus as God offering absolution to the whole world through this unstoppable, perfect music:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjQFYaCwOvM
It always sends chills up my spine.