e-book or paper book?

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Originally Posted by mal4mac

Are Amazon reviewers trustworthy? The geek uploaders might be reviewing themselves - or a competitor might be giving them an undeserved trashy review.

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Obviously that happens and with books too. If I read one review complaining of formatting, spelling, omissions, etc. then I don't download the book. If there aren't any reviews about that then I assume a 50/50 chance of it being badly edited.

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Originally Posted by mal4mac

What if it's not obviously terrible? For instance you might download Oscar Wilde's "complete letters" with many letters missing, or some not involving Oscar Wilde at all! There needs to be someone with a job & reputation to lose doing the quality control, that is an editor an established publishing house. And that means you have to pay for it - and don't good editors deserve to be paid?

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What if this, what if that... If you worry about something like that you can always research his letters (for example), download a free sample (in case the Kindle version you want costs something) and check the table of contents. You can also "Look Inside" of the book versions at the table of contents to see how they match up. Or you can just buy the Penguin or Wordsworth Kindle version... It's up to you.

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Originally Posted by mal4mac

By downloading books for free you are putting good editors & publishers out of a job.

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I'm not putting anyone out of a job downloading pre-1923 books for free. And if I download the free version of a contemporary book, published on Amazon by the author, it would usually be that the book was published by the author on Amazon, because they had a hard time getting it published...

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Originally Posted by TurquoiseSunset

.... Or you can just buy the Penguin or Wordsworth Kindle version...

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I don't think Wordsworth do Kindle versions, at least I couldn't find them. Penguin do, but they are expensive. The Kindle version of Penguin's "Arabian Nights" is £15.99, while the paperback is £11.37!

Yes some of the pricing for Kindle books are crazy, but you have to off-set that by the fact that there are so many available for free on Amazon and Project Guttenburg.

In terms of the formatting/typos I think it is not ideal but not necessarily the end of the world either. If there is a major problem with a book your have purchased Amazon will refund you in full. If it is a free book then you have wasted 10 seconds downloading it, try again and move on. It is worth remembering that it is still only early days and these minor issues are bound to improve.

I remember that I was put off for first going on the internet as it sounded like too much hassle and I could get all the information I needed from books! (On that I have just had to order another laptop as my very old one has finally died. :angel: There goes another £360+...ouch...expensive month.)

Anyway, I've have had a good opportunity to use the Kindle over the last few days - despite another busy, crazy week, and I would still very much recommend it. It's very neat and easy to read from and I've had no major problems at all. The only gripe about the new Kindle is that the highlight facility is not perfect and the text style pop-up keyboard wouldn't be suitable for writing long notes. This is because the keyboard has been dropped in the new Kindle to save space and to reduce cost. My minor gripe with the highlight function is that you cannot delete a highlighted note in the "My Clippings" section (the folder where all your highlights go). This I feel is a fault as surely it wouldn't be hard to add a delete function. You can delete the highlight within the book, but not within the My Clippings.

However, for reading from the Kindle, which is after all the main thing, it is very good thing, even easier than reading books (especially laid in bed) and of course the fact that it is so easy to download tons of books into one little device, means that it is a real winner for my money.

Although I still prefer and appreciate the tradition of a tangible book, I recently went with a Kindle for the sake of cost, I cannot afford additional books anymore nor do I have the room.

For the most part Kindle will still let you do most of what you can with a regular book such as, take notes, save pages, highlight and skip ahead; however, it's all electronic of course so you are relying on a hard drive to save all your work which could malfunction at any time. I'm already on my second Kindle due to some e-ink explosions on the screen. And it is true about some of the formatting with typos and pages missing, although I don't see it happen too frequently. At least with a regular book you feel more complacent with getting the whole of the book, but they can have their typos as well. I have over 400 books on my Kindle, already finished at least a quarter of them, and I haven't paid for one of them so I'm not going to complain much is some of the formatting and editing is a bit off. I don't usually upgrade with the times much if I'm still satisfied with what I already have. The new Kindle Fire is suppose to be in competition with the iPad which I don't see myself getting since I don't need most of what it offers. Technology is meant to manipulate and regulate people for the sake of empowerment. Good ol' traditions don't have to be obsolete if they are still 'traditionlized.'

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Originally Posted by mal4mac

I don't think Wordsworth do Kindle versions, at least I couldn't find them.

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I just saw Modern Library versions of classics as well (I made a mistake regarding Wordsworth).

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Originally Posted by Neely

My minor gripe with the highlight function is that you cannot delete a highlighted note in the "My Clippings" section (the folder where all your highlights go). This I feel is a fault as surely it wouldn't be hard to add a delete function. You can delete the highlight within the book, but not within the My Clippings.

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That is something I don't like either. I would also like to be able to jump to the quote in the book from My Clippings.

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Originally Posted by mal4mac

I don't think Wordsworth do Kindle versions, at least I couldn't find them. Penguin do, but they are expensive. The Kindle version of Penguin's "Arabian Nights" is £15.99, while the paperback is £11.37!

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Wordsworth dont do Kindle, because they only use pre-copywrite texts and translations - so every book of theirs you can get free with a kindle.

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Originally Posted by Alexander III

Wordsworth dont do Kindle, because they only use pre-copywrite texts and translations - so every book of theirs you can get free with a kindle.

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Not true. Wordsworth have modern translations of some authors - like Goethe.

Even the pre-copywrite text still needs an editor, otherwise you get the typo (and other) problems that are being talked about in this thread. The Wordsworth classics also, usually, have an academic giving an overview of the text. So you get a lot for your £1.99. Also - penguin publish pre-copywrite texts - at a much higher price point.

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Originally Posted by Neely

The only gripe about the new Kindle is that the highlight facility is not perfect...

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I can't imagine highlighting being easier than using a pencil - and highlighting is essential to me when reading authors that I want to re-read frequently, but not all of it! (Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, Montaigne,... most factual authors actually)

So I guess "novels" is the only reason I have for buying it - and the library & Wordsworth provide me with almost all of what I desire in free/cheap/edited/ throwable versions - probably work out cheaper than a Kindle (knowing me I'd probably drop it just after the guarantee date, and they are easily broken! And what about the electricity cost?) And I can read 10% more novels :)

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Originally Posted by Serena03

For the most part Kindle will still let you do most of what you can with a regular book such as, take notes, save pages, highlight and skip ahead; however, it's all electronic of course so you are relying on a hard drive to save all your work which could malfunction at any time...

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I remember reading somewhere that Amazon were thinking of becoming cloud based so you would at least be able to download the books again - but your highlighting is in danger unless they put that in the cloud as well (like Google Docs...)

Has anyone found any features like that?

I have books with pencil highlighting that are twenty years old - they haven't crashed and I haven't had to think about backing them up.

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I remember reading somewhere that Amazon were thinking of becoming cloud based so you would at least be able to download the books again - but your highlighting is in danger unless they put that in the cloud as well (like Google Docs...)

Has anyone found any features like that?

I have books with pencil highlighting that are twenty years old - they haven't crashed and I haven't had to think about backing them up.

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Yes, everything you download is automatically saved in the cloud. This means that you are of course safe if you lose/damage your Kindle. It also means that you can delete a text and then download it again if you wish (for free). This could be to save space if 1,500 novels worth on the new version, or 2,500 novels on the old version is not enough. It means you can have an unlimited online personal library.

£1.99 is cheap but if you times that by 1,500 it is not so. Maybe if I had bought the Kindle 5 years ago (if it were around) I would now be looking forward to a holiday in the Med during half-term, who knows?

The highlight facility is not good for making extensive notes. It wouldn't do for serious study, however it is perfect for little "oh that's interesting" moments. This is what I'll be using it for.

The dictionary facility I'm finding is really useful and the general feel of the Kindle is fantastic, it is a joy to read from.

So, overall I would still recommend it very much. Also remember it is not an either or, you can still use a Kindle and a pencil, just as you can still use a pen and a computer.

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Originally Posted by Neely

Yes, everything you download is automatically saved in the cloud. This means that you are of course safe if you lose/damage your Kindle. It also means that you can delete a text and then download it again if you wish (for free). This could be to save space if 1,500 novels worth on the new version, or 2,500 novels on the old version is not enough. It means you can have an unlimited online personal library.

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It also means you don't really own any of your books. Amazon could just decide to delete your whole library if the fancy struck them, and even though I haven't read it, there's undoubtedly legal text that allows them to do this without any more repercussions than angry customers. I don't think this will happen, but that doesn't stop me from keeping the wi-fi turned off at all times I'm not downloading a book--besides, it saves battery power. I don't know if the G3 connectivity can be turned off (I just get the wi-fi enabled), but I assume it can. Still, one could get uber-paranoid and conject that Amazon may have the ability turn on the G3, or even wi-fi, remotely any time they want.

There is another positive to e-books and e-readers no one has mentioned in this thread (I think), and that is that they can be quite helpful to the physically disabled, like me. I often find large, paper-or-hardback books cumbersome and a pain to handle (sometimes small, tightly bound paperbacks are even worse), whereas a Kindle or its like is small, light, and easy to handle and hold.

I recommend this free program called Calibre. It allows you to format you e-books and convert them so you can read on any device or program.

Two weeks into the Kindle now and I wouldn't look back for a second. Prefer it to reading normal books to be honest. Highly recommended all round.

Mrs Neely has borrowed it to read Idiot Abroad - The Travel Diaries of Karl Pilkington (very funny and recommended too) and it has also got a positive press from her. Easier in your hand and neat to carry around. Go buy.

I have just popped my ebook cherry, but on my android phone. I'm not 100% convinced, but I love some of the features, like looking up a word and the bookmarking - very handy! And surprisingly more readable than I thought it was going to be.

I think I might see if Santa can sort me out with a Kindle.......

I think the e-ink on the Kindle is far better than a phone screen, but I'm still not convinced about moving into ebooks. I just ordered a Wordsworth classics copy of Walter Scott's Ivanhoe, for £1.99 that comes with extensive notes and a scholarly introduction. On reading reviews of the free Kindle edition, which has no notes, people are complaining that "many words are not in the dictionary" - never mind the possible typos due to lack of paid editors & scholarly reviewers.

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Originally Posted by mal4mac

I think the e-ink on the is far better than a phone screen, but I'm still not convinced about moving into ebooks. I just ordered a Wordsworth classics copy of Walter Scott's Ivanhoe, for £1.99 that comes with extensive notes and a scholarly introduction. On reading reviews of the free Kindle edition, which has no notes, people are complaining that "many words are not in the dictionary" - never mind the possible typos due to lack of paid editors & scholarly reviewers.

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Yes, I have seen the e-ink - much better. But it's good that you can give the experience a try without forking out £100.

I have noticed a few typos on both books I have read this way, but it was not bad enough to put me off. And the lookup function worked through Wikipedia and Google on my version and worked a treat.

I think though, that £1.99 for all that is a positive bargain!! Just a pity that you have to wait for delivery instead of downloading it in seconds!

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Originally Posted by Neely

Yes, everything you download is automatically saved in the cloud. This means that you are of course safe if you lose/damage your Kindle.

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Thanks for that information - good to see Amazon have now got their act together with this. I wish they had a Spotify model, though - imagine paying £10 a month and reading whatever you wanted! I'd buy a Kindle then...

How Long will it take you to read 1500 books, many the length of "Bleak House"!?

By using the library, buying the cheapest paperbacks from charity shop, ebay, closing down sales, etc., you can really keep the costs down. By selling them again on Amazon Marketplace, you could even make a profit!

Actually, Neely, there's a definite gap in the market here for an enterprising Kindle scholar - fix the typos and add notes to (say) the free Oscar Wilde versions, and sell the complete Oscar for whatever the market will bear - you'd only have to beat the silly Penguin prices (to start with...) Who knows? You might get a Med. holiday out of it :thumbsup: