D.H. Lawrence's Short Stories Thread

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Originally Posted by Antiquarian

So Mrs. Severn was not a tolerant person and not tolerant of other religions, though it seems the Jews displeased her most. She tolerates Severn despite his being Catholic even though she considers being Catholic being an "unbeliever." Being Jewish, she does not tolerate at all.

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I did not interpret it that she thought Catholics were not believer, but that Severn was no longer a practicing Catholic, be she says he is an unbeliever who "had" been Catholic.

It is true, that Mrs. Thomas did pit the men against each other. It said she had intentionally taken the side of her husband in the argument, becasue she knew if she sided with Severn he would be gentle with Mr. Thomas.

But I still feel after my second reading of the story, that it is in someways about "primal" man.

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Originally Posted by Antiquarian

As a Jew, I found the story offensive and a horrible reminder of what the Jewish people have been through collectively, and the stereotyping to which we're still subjected, but I guess that can't be helped. I am a Jew and proud of that fact and Lawrence does say Kate was cast out from among her "betters."

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I personally did not feel as if this story was intended to be negative to Jews. And the way in which he had put "betters" in quotations within the story, I interpreted that as if it were meant to be sarcastic in a way. That Mr. and Mrs. Thomas might have thought they were better, but I did not feel he was agreeing with or confirming to this fact.

I also felt that the reason she was being expelled from the house was becasue of the jealoussy of Mrs. Thomas, as she is being kicked out right at the time that she is starting to be noticed as a woman and coming into sexual maturity.

Unless I'm missing something, I don't see any malicious anti-semitism. I see some outdated notions of racial features. It doesn't strike me as going to the heart of her person. She is not a villain, as in say Shakespeare's Merchant of Venice. In fact I thought she was rather sympatheiticaly drawn. I thought this paragraph that closes the opening scene very sympathetic to Kate's predicament:

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The maid stood for a few moments clenching her young fists, clenching her very breast in revolt. Then she closed the door.

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Yes I agree with you Virgil. Her being Jewish was used as a physical description of her, now it might be stereotypical in that way, but other than that I did not think it was anti-Semitic.

Also the other thing to consider, which I did not think of before when responding to Anti. Do not forget she was thier maid, so no matter her race, the people that hired her would think they were her "betters" I think that was more a statement of class not race

I am sorry, Antiquarian,that you feel this way; I truly was hoping to start this new story without contraversy and I don't see a thing Anti-semitic about this story. I must be missing something, as Virgil said, if it is there, anywhere. I just looked at the first part of the text; if anything I thought the narrator (Lawrence) was complimenting the womanliness of Kate, her new maturity and her beauty. In fact, he felt she had some Jewish blood that only made her such a beauty and he seemed in remarking about it to admire Jewish people, even more so. I also think he admired her (and the Jewish) fortitude, in the way he wrote some of the lines of observation; and finally I don't think Severn even thought it fair that she was expelled from the house; if anything Lawrence did frown on that fact here in this story, and also the difference in her class distinction (not due to her being Jewish, just poor) I can't see how that is offensive in the least; but if you truly feel offended by this story, then just don't continue with this discussion and maybe Lawrence is not even for you, who knows? I would do the same in any of the threads; I did not feel comfortable with the story or subject matter; we all have free choice here. No one will be offended, if you decide not to participate. Many have left the thread, and some have come back, after a time. It is all up to you.

Here is the beginning passage:

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The maid who opened the door was just developing into a handsome womanhood. Therefore she seemed to have the insolent pride of one newly come to an inheritance. She would be a splendid woman to look at, having just enough of Jewish blood to enrich her comeliness into beauty. At nineteen her fine grey eyes looked challenge, and her warm complexion, her black hair looped up slack, enforced the sensuous folding of her mouth.

She wore no cap nor apron, but a well-looking sleeved overall such as even very ladies don.

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I think the 'inheritance' he is referring to here is her 'developing into a handsome womanhood'; he is complimenting her.

"She would be a splendid woman to look at, having just enough of Jewish blood to enrich her comeliness into beauty." another direct compliment. This is like saying English people have such beautiful blue eyes, or Chinese such lovely creamy skin; all this refers to is physical features. I don't see how this is a put-down about the Jewish element in her makeup.

As DM says:
"Her being Jewish was used as a physical description of her, now it might be stereotypical in that way, but other than that I did not think it was anti-Semitic."
I agree with that distinction and I also took it as a direct compliment to Kate's appearance.

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Also the other thing to consider, which I did not think of before when responding to Anti. Do not forget she was thier maid, so no matter her race, the people that hired her would think they were her "betters" I think that was more a statement of class not race

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Yes, from my reading of Lawrence and considering this story was conceived early on, I think that he would be far more interested in class-distinction and prejudice, than expressing any attitude of Anti-semitism. Lawrence was not like that. You may as well say he was prejudiced against gypsies, for heaven sakes, he wrote one of his famous novels entitled "The Virgin and the Gypsy". I happen to be reading that novel currently. Some reading that book might call him anti-gypsy.

I think the last statement shows she is a lady, in Severn's eyes, not a mere maid; class plays into this more than anything.

Sorry for emerging later than I should have. Wow, so many posts in one day. I thought the thread might go on a slower pace and didn't sign in on lit-net even though I had read it last night. Still, no harm done. :)

Interesting discussion so far. I can understand, Antiquarian, about how anti-Jewish stuff would annoy you. Personally it aggravates me too, discrimination such as this. But I will back up all those who say there doesn't seem to be anti-Semeticism as such in this particular story. I have just skimmed through the story once again a few minutes back and can't find any specific sentence referring to any kind of hostility towards Jewish people (any offensive thing I mean). Maybe I have missed something?

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Originally Posted by Virgil

For instance, why does Lawrence include the detail of Kate being Jewish, and why is a point made that the Thomas's are protestant and Severn is a lapsed Cathloic? Why is the story titled "The Old Adam"? Why is the little girl, and especially the two scenes, one where he's racing after her and the other where he undresses her for bed, included? What is is going on with the sexual tension between Severn and Mrs. Thomas?

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Interesting questions, Virgil. I don't consider it as a very light read either though yes there were some amusing parts such as the fight between the two guys.

Hmmm don't think the scenes concerning the little girl are there to provide some greater meaning to the story. As for the sexual tension between Severn and Mrs. Thomas - interesting. I am pretty confused about it myself. Did anybody find that part where there was thunder and how it made Mrs. Thomas cry to be of any particular importance BTW?

Oh and the title of the story - I have been wondering about it myself too. Antiquarian's idea about it explains a lot but I wonder why the addition of 'Old' in 'The Adam'? What significance does 'Old' in 'The Old Adam' hold?

Antiquarian,

Please feel free to sit any stories you do not feel like discussing in this thread or any others on the Forum. As you can appreciate, we cannot ask other members not to discuss stories or books which are not agreeable to us as it would make it almost impossible to find one that is agreed upon by all and have any discussions.

However, this is your earlier post, in which you state that you find the story amusing:

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Originally Posted by Antiquarian

I, too, found the story amusing and not nearly as complex as the other Lawrence stories I've read.

I would place it in the middle of stories I like. I wasn't wild about it, but I didn't dislike it, either. I thought the little domestic scene to be very amusing. Sad, in some ways, but also amusing.

I liked the relationship between Severn and Thomas. And I liked both men. Now, Mrs. Thomas, I wasn't so fond of, but I certainly didn't hate her.

I feel this is a lesser story of Lawrence's (for example, Kate seemed just a prop to advance the plot), not as great as "The Witch a la Mode" or "The Horse-Dealer's Daughter," but it should be a fun story to discuss and after the last one, I think we need something a little lighter.

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I am just wondering what has brought about the sudden change.

Thanks Scher for intervening. Let me make it clear that I didn't contact you or ask you to make this statement; but for once, I am glad you put a stop to this contravery. It was beginning to get me down. I too, would like to know the answer to that last question of yours. I am totally miffed.

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Originally Posted by Janine

Thanks Scher for intervening. Let me make it clear that I didn't contact you or ask you to make this statement; but for once, I am glad you put a stop to this contravery. It was beginning to get me down. I too, would like to know the answer to that last question of yours. I am totally miffed.

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I would also like to make it clear that I am not in the habit of "intervening" or "making statements" simply because one member or another asks me to.

All moderators, including myself, try to do their very best to be impartial and fair while also trying to keep on top of all the posts every day. We "intervene" only because discussions sometimes do go awry and a gentle reminder is all it takes to put it back on track.

I hope now this thread will resume its earlier harmonious flow and we will all move on.

Please try to resolve your personal differences via PMs.

Any off-topic posts will be deleted.

I just read the story this afternoon, and I think it should be good for discussion. Surprise: another good pick from Janine. The plot is a little simplistic and the end is somewhat obvious, but Lawrence tells the story well and weaves in many interesting subtexts. I printed out the story, so I'm ready to discuss whenever Janine posts the first section.

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Originally Posted by Scheherazade

I would also like to make it clear that I am not in the habit of "intervening" or "making statements" simply because one member or another asks me to.

All moderators, including myself, try to do their very best to be impartial and fair while also trying to keep on top of all the posts every day. We "intervene" only because discussions sometimes do go awry and a gentle reminder is all it takes to put it back on track.

I hope now this thread will resume its earlier harmonious flow and we will all move on.

Please try to resolve your personal differences via PMs.

Any off-topic posts will be deleted.

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Scheherazade, I do appreciate you attentiveness; yes, sometimes just a gentle reminder is enough to keep things moving along. It can't be easy to read so many posts in a day. I have always commended the mods for their fine way of running this site.

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Originally Posted by Quark

I just read the story this afternoon, and I think it should be good for discussion. Surprise: another good pick from Janine. The plot is a little simplistic and the end is somewhat obvious, but Lawrence tells the story well and weaves in many interesting subtexts. I printed out the story, so I'm ready to discuss whenever Janine posts the first section.

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Quark, you have not missed much in the actual discussion of the text. I did post a paragraph or so of the beginning text, but I intend to re-post that tomorrow; start fresh.

Quark, I am so glad you enjoyed the story; as you point out it is very well-written. I try hard to choose one you all will like or find interesting to discuss; I sometimes read as many as 4 or 5, before I make up my mind. Did you see my intro page? I provided a few links and one is a download to the MP3 file (audio). I want to download that myself, but first I have to clear out various things from my HD. I actually got my PM box down to nothing today; that's a first!

Glad to see Pensive joining us this month, too. She always has good perceptions and observations. It should be a good discussion.

Will post that text soon - tomorrow; a bit tired out for today.:yawnb:

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Originally Posted by Antiquarian

Quark, I agree with you that the plot is a little simplistic (that's not necessarily a bad thing) and the ending obvious, and I do agree there's a lot of subtext in this story. In fact, I think this story's strength lies in its subtext. Not symbolism or metaphor, etc., but subtext.

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Quark and Antiquarian, I was aware that the plot of the story was a little simplistic when I chose this one. I didn't want to do a super complicated story like "Witch" because I felt we did need a little breather this time. Of course, the ending was somewhat predictable but then again I felt it would be so with many of L's stories in the past. One could read the signs leading up to what would happen eventually; he lays out a lot of forshadowing devices of text, I believe. I will be also interested in discussing the subtext in this particular story. I thought we had our share of symbolism and metaphor in the last story - our poor over-taxed brains! I think there may be some when we look at the story text closer. If you recall when we read the last story initial comments on the story changed drastically from the beginning pages of the discussion to the end pages. I think often that is the case. I do think this story is not particularly driven by plot or by deep symbolism but as you say, subtext and I would say, atmosphere and human interactions.

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Naturally, I think most of it lies in the scenes and the set piece with Severn and Mrs. Thomas and in the set piece of the trip, literally, down the stairs and the fight.

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I would agree with you on this idea and I liked those two scenes very much, and the 'set pieces', as you term them; the last being my favorite.

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It should be fun to discuss that subtext. Subtext is something I love.

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Yes, you will have to teach us all a little more about that. I'm not that familar with the term, 'subtext'. You were the Lit major and Virgil did his thesis on L; so I am sure he knows; I was only an art major with very minor classes in Lit, in college. Also, my memory fails me; that was so long ago.

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I didn't find this story quite as well written as some of Lawrence's other stories ("The Horse-Dealer's Daughter" is my favorite), but I do think those two set pieces are great. And fun.

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'The Horse-Dealer's Daughter' is a major work - very acclaimed. It is a lot longer, also. 'The Daughters of the Vicar' is acclaimed as well, but I have held off doing it - it is quite long for one month - I am sure it is very well-written and a good story.

'Old Adam' is an earlier work. Lawrence's short story 'polish' evolved over time; practice does make perfect. I still feel, that for a 'young work', this story is quite commendable. I think I posted something saying how long it took him to write it; pretty amazing; of course, I am sure he re-wrote it over time, or revised it. It was not published until after his death.

I found it interesting that of all the stories they did find it valuable enough to produce a audiofile to buy online. I could not find another short story that had one...curious, isn't it? I wish I could find more of them on audio. I love listening to them, when I am in the mood.


To Everyone:
I will post the beginning part of the text tonight, too busy currently. Hold up and I will come through later with it.

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Originally Posted by Antiquarian

I think it's good to have something a little lighter to discuss, Janine, and something not too laden with symbolism. The previous story was so complex. Very good and very well crafted, but so complex. I love the symbolism, but with the warm weather, I think more people will be outside and the lighter story you've chosen will be very good.

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Thanks, Antiquarian, glad you understand that. I really did think we needed to lighten up this month. I know I need a break and to get outside and enjoy the weather. I don't have a laptop so I can't take it with me. This story's bit of humor and amusing scenes I thought would be appealing after the last very serious story; you said it - it was very complex.

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I think Virgil might be our only English major, I was a Creative Writing major. I wish now it had been English, but that is that. I'm not sure about DM, Quark and Pensive. Subtext is just the meaning beneath the spoken words, the things the characters mean but don't say. Unless one writes or wants to read like a writer, there's no reason to remember the term, itself. It's one of those things that you know when you see it. I'm sure you saw it even if you did forget the term. Now me, I never could draw even a decent stick figure.

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Is he? I thought his major in college was Engineering; maybe it was English. What is the difference in the two majors, English and Creative Writing major?
Thanks for the definition of 'subtext'; this is funny, I actually looked it up in my dictionary and could not find it; it is probably in my larger college dictionary. I thought that is what it meant - sort of like 'reading between the lines', right?
:lol: I can't draw stick people either - who would want to? Maybe I will be drawing them someday for my granddaughter.

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Yes, practice does improve one's work, even if it doesn't make it perfect as is the case with so many minor writers. Lawrence, of course, was a major writer and left behind so many wonderful, polished stories for us to enjoy.

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That is so true. I know he was young, when he wrote this story. I think he did have natural talent. I read his first novel and it is not a polished work and yet I did so enjoy it; it had plenty of flaws but it thrilled me at how fresh it felt and the woodland/farm/field scenes were so lovely. No one can describe snowdrops quite like Lawrence did in that book. Lawrence has been called a major writer now, but once he really did get a bum rape. I read online, it was mostly because people misinterpreted his work. Also, revised or original versions have resurfaced in recent years and these are the ones L would have had published, if he could have; he had many a struggle with publishers. I just read this online today, but forget where.

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I can see where "The Old Adam" would be good on audiofile, though I have to admit I haven't listened to it. Parts of it are almost like a play and the two scenes are very comedic, especially the second one. I think that one would be fun to watch. It did remind me a bit of Evelyn Waugh, and I mean that in a very good way. It seems Lawrence could write in any area - comedy, tragedy, love stories, stories of families, etc.

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Will you download it? I want to, but I think I have to clear out some more things from my HD; I'm a little overloaded right now. It does remind me of a play as well. In fact, there is some similarity to Lawrence's play, "The Widowing of Mrs. Holryod" - again, bascially a three person play, with the addition of a fourth character, near the end. Also, that play it is like a cross between this story idea and "Odour of Chrysanthemums." Lets say, they all have similar components and characters, and in two of them, there is a rival male to the husband. It is hard to explain, unless you have read all three. One scene in the play, the rival male actually washes the face of the man he just hit; the husband is drunk though so that is mainly why he is out cold; but he does it very lovingly even though they are rivals. The outcome of the play and the other short story is much different, in that this short story does not end tragically.

Sorry Everyone it took me so long to post this. It is so humid here and I have to force myself to do anything today and plus I got tied up with household duties, real fun stuff. Not!

The Beginning Text:

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The maid who opened the door was just developing into a handsome womanhood. Therefore she seemed to have the insolent pride of one newly come to an inheritance. She would be a splendid woman to look at, having just enough of Jewish blood to enrich her comeliness into beauty. At nineteen her fine grey eyes looked challenge, and her warm complexion, her black hair looped up slack, enforced the sensuous folding of her mouth.

She wore no cap nor apron, but a well-looking sleeved overall such as even very ladies don.

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The story begins with our first brief, impression of Kate, the maid. I think from this brief description, we see she is a person of pride in herself, and is developing into a splendid woman, a beauty with a ‘sensuous folding of her mouth’. She doesn’t wear an apron or cap, which would no doubt be ‘conventional’ for a maid, but rather wears “what even very ladies don”. I think that she seems to be youthful like Severn, and he seems to treat her on equal footing; afterall, he is but a lowly border/tenent in this house. As he is at the landlord's mercy, so is she. He's physically described in the next paragraph:

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The man she opened to was tall and thin, but graceful in his energy. He wore white flannels, carried a tennis-racket. With a light bow to the maid he stepped beside her on the threshold. He was one of those who attract by their movement, whose movement is watched unconsciously, as we watch the flight of a sea-bird waving its wing leisurely. Instead of entering the house, the young man stood beside the maid-servant and looked back into the blackish evening. When in repose, he had the diffident, ironic bearing so remarkable in the educated youth of to-day, the very reverse of that traditional aggressiveness of youth.

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I notice he bows to her, as if she were a lady, so I think he treats her respectfully. I think the mention of the tennis-racket and his white clothes, his graceful energy, already gives us this youthful 'vibrant' impression of Severn. I liked the statement in reference to ‘a sea-bird waving it’s wing leisurely,’ in describing how one would perceive him (unconsciously), his attraction in his movement. That seems to conjure up a certain image; kind of free and easy, natural. The last statement is interesting; seems to set up the idea that he is not as the youth of the day, ‘traditionally aggressive’. Ironic that the story begins with that statement, since later he does indeed become very aggressive, when provoked/attacked.

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"It is going to thunder, Kate," he said.
"Yes, I think it is," she replied, on an even footing.
The young man stood a moment looking at the trees across the road, and on the oppressive twilight.
"Look," he said, "there's not a trace of colour in the atmosphere, though it's sunset; all a dark, lustrous grey; and those oaks kindle green like a low fire--see!"

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Thunder, oppressive twilight, colourless atmosphere, dark, lustrous gray, oaks kindling “green like a low fire”; although it is sunset; all key words that anticipate something ominous to come, foreshadowing, seems to sets up the atmosphere from the beginning.

Another thing that stands out is the words to describe Kate’s manor towards Severn, she replied“on an even footing.”

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"Yes," said Kate, rather awkwardly.
"A troublesome sort of evening; must be, because it's your last with us."
"Yes," said the girl, flushing and hardening.
There was another pause; then:
"Sorry you're going?" he asked, with a faint tang of irony.
"In some ways," she replied, rather haughtily.
He laughed, as if he understood what was not said, then, with an "Ah well!" he passed along the hall.

The maid stood for a few moments clenching her young fists, clenching her very breast in revolt. Then she closed the door.

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In this short discussion concerning her leaving, I do get the impression Severn is sorry to see her go; because first, he links the event with the coming thunderstorm/gloom of this evening, when he used the word 'troublesome'. Little does he know at this point how truly 'troublesome 'this evening will prove to be. I think the ‘faint tang of irony’ in his voice, when he asks her “Sorry you’re going?” seems to suggest he knows that she was not treated that nicely at the house or is there something I am not detecting. Antiquarian, would you call that subtext? What do you think of the line? Right after that it does say that “He laughed, as if he understood what was not said”….

We can discuss all this; please feel free to give any additional impressions/observations on this much of the text; I certainly don't know all. This part is a good beginning to the story and presents two of the characters to us; one, the main character and the other, a minor character, who does fit into the scheme of the story; remember who's trunk needs to be moved and who breaks up the fight? It also sets a mood, I think.
After this, we can go onto the part with the child and Severn in the garden. I liked that scene.

I think I will read quickly through the story again tonight; although I am reading another short Lawrence work; a novella and wanted to try and finish that soon; I guess I can put that on-hold one night, although I an captivated at this point.

How in the word did it get so late? I am so tired out.:eek:

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Originally Posted by Janine

The last statement is interesting; seems to set up the idea that he is not as the youth of the day, ‘traditionally aggressive’. Ironic that the story begins with that statement, since later he does indeed become very aggressive, when provoked/attacked.

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I think that statement is meant to set up the fact that his fight with the landlord was out of character for Severn. Not something we should expect from him, or the kind of thing he has done before, but unique to the occasion.

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Originally Posted by Janine

Thunder, oppressive twilight, colourless atmosphere, dark, lustrous gray, oaks kindling “green like a low fire”; although it is sunset; all key words that anticipate something ominous to come, foreshadowing, seems to sets up the atmosphere from the beginning.

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I loved the way the thunder was descirbed in this story because I love storms. I felt the pressence of the storm, as well as the way they speak of it:

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"It is going to thunder, Kate," he said.
"Yes, I think it is," she replied, on an even footing.
The young man stood a moment looking at the trees across the road, and on the oppressive twilight.
"Look," he said, "there's not a trace of colour in the atmosphere, though it's sunset; all a dark, lustrous grey; and those oaks kindle green like a low fire--see!"
"Yes," said Kate, rather awkwardly.
"A troublesome sort of evening; must be, because it's your last with us."

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Are indeed foreshadow, and a reflection upon what is to come. It is almost as if they already sense something is in the air, and this this night will not be like others.

I thought the words "A troublesome sort of evening; must be, because it's your last with us"

Were interesting, almost as if somehow her leaving is releated to the encounter with the landlord later, and it did start over the moving of her trunk. Not that was the reason why it happend, but how it came to happen.

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Originally Posted by Janine

In this short discussion concerning her leaving, I do get the impression Severn is sorry to see her go; because first, he links the event with the coming thunderstorm/gloom of this evening, when he used the word 'troublesome'. Little does he know at this point how truly 'troublesome 'this evening will prove to be. I think the ‘faint tang of irony’ in his voice, when he asks her “Sorry you’re going?” seems to suggest he knows that she was not treated that nicely at the house or is there something I am not detecting. Antiquarian, would you call that subtext? What do you think of the line? Right after that it does say that “He laughed, as if he understood what was not said”…

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Yes I agree that he was sad to see her leave, and did not agree with the way she was being treated, or the reasons she is being asked to leave.

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Originally Posted by Dark Muse

I think that statement is meant to set up the fact that his fight with the landlord was out of character for Severn. Not something we should expect from him, or the kind of thing he has done before, but unique to the occasion.

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Dark Muse, I will answer your post first and then go onto Antiquarian's. I saw yours here last night, DM, but was too tired to post; it was quite late.

I agree with your statement above. The fight later does seem out of character with this impression we are first given. I believe thought that Lawrence felt that anyone was capable of a violent act if they were provoked or abused enough; I don't know if you were here when we read "The Pussian Officer". This was the case in the story. There are some slight similarities here. I am sure that Virgil will bring up that idea later; he liked that story and there is a similar scene in it, but much more tragic.

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I loved the way the thunder was descirbed in this story because I love storms. I felt the pressence of the storm, as well as the way they speak of it:

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I did, too. I like thunderstorms but not when they is really heavy thunder and lightening; not since last year when a surge went through to my computer and it nearly whipped out my HD. Now I have to unplug too often to like it. However, a thunderstorm does set up the right kind of tension in this story from the start and I don't recall any other stories with thunderstorms do you, unless there was on in "The Man Who Loved Islands". I know there were storms and then a snowstorm but not sure of a thunderstorm. The flashing of light later on with the lightening makes this story interesting and even more tension filled.

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Are indeed foreshadow, and a reflection upon what is to come. It is almost as if they already sense something is in the air, and this this night will not be like others.

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Exactly!

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I thought the words "A troublesome sort of evening; must be, because it's your last with us" were interesting, almost as if somehow her leaving is releated to the encounter with the landlord later, and it did start over the moving of her trunk. Not that was the reason why it happend, but how it came to happen.

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Could be; at anyrate the word is a good form of foreshadowing. I think also Severn at that point is saying her leaving is troublesome, at least to some, probably not to Mrs. Thomas. Maybe she is the only one wanting her expelled from the house. Doesn't Severn later on say it is a shame she has to leave. I think he does but don't have time not to look up specific statements; we will get to that part eventually anyway. I failed to read the story last night - got too late after my movie....sorry.

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Yes I agree that he was sad to see her leave, and did not agree with the way she was being treated, or the reasons she is being asked to leave.

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I took it that way. I felt he portrayed a feeling of futility, even helplessness in her being asked to leave. He really had no say in the matter, and that may have made him feel badly.

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Originally Posted by Janine

[ Doesn't Severn later on say it is a shame she has to leave. I think he does but don't have time not to look up specific statements; we will get to that part eventually anyway. I failed to read the story last night - got too late after my movie....sorry

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First he is kind of mocking Kate with Mrs. Thomas, but than later when he is moving the trunk with Mr. Thomas, he thinks to himself:

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"Poor Kate" Severn thought. "It's a shame to kicke her out into the world, and all for nothing." He felt an impulse of hate towards womankind.

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