Why does a good God promote suffering?

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Originally Posted by Paulclem

The Buddha's experience of Gods was that there are a number of them who live greatly extended lives-eons long- of divine comfort, but who are themselves subject to birth ageing sickness and death. The delusion the foremost of them has - referred to as Brahma, but this is pre-christian, (which raises interesting possibilities), is that they created the universe.

The idea that there is a God realm would seem to account for the different views of Gods that cultures have, and for the different sets of them - Norse, Greek, Hindu, the God vengeful of the Hebrews etc.

The Buddha's claim also sugests that it is possible to know the minds of Gods and that they're not so Divine as they think but subject to Karma just the same as any being. From the Buddha's point of view then, as they too suffer, they need to be viewed with compassion.

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Norse and Greek gods are getting a lot of sympathy, not. Now for the rest of them.

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Originally Posted by Paulclem

The Buddha's experience of Gods was that there are a number of them who live greatly extended lives-eons long- of divine comfort, but who are themselves subject to birth ageing sickness and death. The delusion the foremost of them has - referred to as Brahma, but this is pre-christian, (which raises interesting possibilities), is that they created the universe.

The idea that there is a God realm would seem to account for the different views of Gods that cultures have, and for the different sets of them - Norse, Greek, Hindu, the God vengeful of the Hebrews etc.

The Buddha's claim also sugests that it is possible to know the minds of Gods and that they're not so Divine as they think but subject to Karma just the same as any being. From the Buddha's point of view then, as they too suffer, they need to be viewed with compassion.

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This is very interesting. I so love stories of Buddha. Of course, they still do not offer hard evidence of a God realm, and the suggestion that the universe was created by beings at all is merely fanciful speculation. However, if we are speaking in hypotheticals, the points you raise imply to me that, as we may know the minds of gods, and as gods may be fallible, it stands to reason that everyone could aspire to be equal to (and even defeat) the existing gods. Another lovely fantasy. I could so take the Christian god in a fight. I'm pretty much a badass, is why. Seriously, I don't have any faith in guesswork, but fairy tales are sweet. :)

If there are gods, it is right for us to tremble.

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Originally Posted by Varenne Rodin

This is very interesting. I so love stories of Buddha. Of course, they still do not offer hard evidence of a God realm, and the suggestion that the universe was created by beings at all is merely fanciful speculation. However, if we are speaking in hypotheticals, the points you raise imply to me that, as we may know the minds of gods, and as gods may be fallible, it stands to reason that everyone could aspire to be equal to (and even defeat) the existing gods. Another lovely fantasy. I could so take the Christian god in a fight. I'm pretty much a badass, is why. Seriously, I don't have any faith in guesswork, but fairy tales are sweet. :)

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The Buddha's teachings suggest that anyone who follows the path could gain insight into the different realms. Lots of meditation, (of specific kinds) practice needed under the guidance of a Teacher though.

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Originally Posted by G L Wilson

If there are gods, it is right for us to tremble.

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Nonsense. :)

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Originally Posted by Varenne Rodin

Nonsense. :)

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I put no trust in gods of any kind.

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Originally Posted by G L Wilson

I put no trust in gods of any kind.

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Trust has nothing to do with it. Why "tremble"? What is the worst thing a god could do to you?

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Originally Posted by Varenne Rodin

Trust has nothing to do with it. Why "tremble"? What is the worst thing a god could do to you?

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Could revoke his internet access.

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Originally Posted by Varenne Rodin

Trust has nothing to do with it. Why "tremble"? What is the worst thing a god could do to you?

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If the "god" were the Creator of all things and the source of spiritual life, and if He were the only source of real love, He could allow you to separate yourself from Him, as it were. Through this action existence would become like hell. But that is only one school of thought. Everyone has to choose for themselves what to believe.

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Originally Posted by MarkBastable

Could revoke his internet access.

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You should be a god, Mark.

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Originally Posted by BienvenuJDC

If the "god" were the Creator of all things and the source of spiritual life, and if He were the only source of real love, He could allow you to separate yourself from Him, as it were. Through this action existence would become like hell. But that is only one school of thought. Everyone has to choose for themselves what to believe.

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A theory as sound as any. If this turns out to be the case, I still will not tremble before god. He never made himself clear. I'll just be thrilled to still exist, to not have gone out like a blown candle. If god wants me to fear him, I want to be separated from such a beast. I wouldn't care if I was cast into the most empty void. I would be content to have myself, and to go on. If he takes my "self" away, it will be no different a fate than I imagined.

These are romantic musings. Wildest dreams.

We die. Consciousness goes. I have faith in right now, because this is within my realm of understanding. :)

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Originally Posted by Varenne Rodin

A theory as sound as any. If this turns out to be the case, I still will not tremble before god. He never made himself clear. I'll just be thrilled to still exist, to not have gone out like a blown candle. If god wants me to fear him, I want to be separated from such a beast. I wouldn't care if I was cast into the most empty void. I would be content to have myself, and to go on. If he takes my "self" away, it will be no different a fate than I imagined.

These are romantic musings. Wildest dreams.

We die. Consciousness goes. I have faith in right now, because this is within my realm of understanding. :)

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How can you be so sure of that?

I've seen brain death. I've seen the slow and the rapid deterioration of the human brain. I have knowledge of the way information travels through the central nervous system, and the way memories are stored. As portions of the brain die, and as neural connections clog and stick shut permanently, a person's "self" fractures and fades away. There is nothing left of the awareness that was there. I have never seen a vehicle for this awareness to pass into another realm. I have only seen this reality, so I can never assert that there is another.

My family died a long time ago. Like squashed insects, they were destroyed. I haven't heard from them since. Go figure!

Can I say there is no afterlife? No. All I can say for certain is that corpses decay, and new stuff eventually grows out of them. It's not as depressing to me as it is to those clinging to delusion. That being said, faith in guesswork can make some people happy. Unicorns and dragons made me happy when I was 4 and imagined they were real.

Also, it doesn't matter what I feel sure of. Like I said, I'm contained in the present reality.

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Originally Posted by Varenne Rodin

Also, it doesn't matter what I feel sure of. Like I said, I'm contained in the present reality.

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I am trapped in it.