The puzzle of the socalled "Bach variations".

Yanni,

The 'war' of which you speak is one on humanity, as a whole. The kind that humanity now realise is ongoing. Part of which is directed to ruthlessly destroy Christian and even Jewish and Muslim culture. By any means. Including through the financial, banking, military, political and even the academic world. Coming from frauds and liars of the pseudo-Christian and pseudo-Jewish elites and their fraternal sub-contractors, over centuries. In union with each other as we see in the banking, political, academic and every other sectors. Not content with having scammed entire nations and their governments out of their national sovereignty they want full control of history and education. As they had for centuries. Through their tin-pot fraternities and fraudulent corporations. Members of which have infiltrated and counterfeited virtually every sector of the religious, academic, business and cultural worlds. Whose targets include the Catholic and protestant churches themselves plus Islam and even Jewish communities. Counterfeits are the order of the day in their thinking. But misinformation is a plain fact accepted today by virtually every honest person. The occultist scum bags of evil. Hence the need to counter their dogmatic obscurantism with plain, indisputable but little known facts of history. The kind you so obviously love to learn ! Even in matters of music history.

Any hiearchical structure is vulnerable to corruption by globalist liars. In fact, globalism is enforced through hiearchical structures and their products. They come to us in the name of 'democracy' and even of 'culture'. The history of music (so-called) is a prime example. Fraudsters, fraternity freaks, agents of misinformation and the usual vested, feudal, bloodline interests. Increasingly exposed in our own time. At last.

I must be doing something right since I have and have had for a long time many good Jewish, Catholic, Orthodox, Muslim and Protestant friends. Of various nationalities and ethnic backgrounds. Each to their own.

Don't you just love the rising of the sun and real accountability ?

But it was sure to happen. The gooks don't like being exposed.

Do yourself the great favour of serving mankind. Then we are on the same side.

Regards

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yanni

Don't want my Niessen mustard and prefer Khazar dressing for Your sausages? Fine with me but may I humbly suggest to His White English Holiness,He better go promote His Sacred Products elsewhere?
I am a vegetarian, as He may notice, and this site is for colour blind sinners exclusively.

Do Bless us on Your way out!

Amen!

September 24, 2010: Brother Robert on Rome’s War Against Protestant Culture
EJP hosts White English Brother-in-Christ Robert Newman as he reveals Rome’s war on White Protestant Culture in the area of classical music. Protestant Lutheran Bach was the target for the Order in attempting to excel his compositions. While George Whitfield was preaching the gospel in the American Colonies, Bach was moving all of Europe with his God-glorifying, musical masterpieces!

(In excelsis Bachum-Handelum, allelujah! Frater Kochum grecorum-negrorum, cantor.)

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I didn't "speak of war", YOU did and still do.

http://www.ejpress.org/about/

I am not buying!

But the 'war on error' justifies virtually all aspects of our lives these days. Don't you know that ?

Our corporate governments and the mass media tell us so.

Our enemies are all those who question their official output. (LOL).

What we really need, they say, are a totally dumbed down population. Just queue up for more austerity measures, more banker bailouts, more political correctness, more fake vitamins, more vaccinations, more planning for national emergencies, more false flag operations, more GM crops, more 'cultural control', more invasions and occupations and lots more corruption in our corporatised governments and court systems. Everyone is to blame except them.

In my small field (musical history) I've seen my fair share of nonsense. And I reject it. That's all. The myth makers have been at war with reality for a very long time.

You don't 'buy it' ? That's good. It's really not for sale. It's as free as rainwater. But there are plans to sell that soon too !!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yanni

I didn't "speak of war", YOU did and still do.

http://www.ejpress.org/about/

I am not buying!

---

Discussions on curent political issues are against the rules of this forum.

I am not discussing them. I am only listing them. They do not require discussion. Are they not acts of war against mankind ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yanni

Discussions on curent political issues are against the rules of this forum.

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Googling for "Musicology Handel Bach" this thread lists #1 in 55000.

"Now you know!" as Mell Gibson (conspiracy theorist-cabdriver) would say! Or was it Bruce Willis?

Every war is a conspiracy, every act of wholesale deception and, each day, thousands of crimes are prosecuted in courts worldwide which are proved beyond doubt to be acts of criminal conspiracy.

The official report of 9/11 is a document which refers (no less than 3 times in its published text) to a criminal ''conspiracy''.

So it's perfectly OK to believe in criminal conspiracies - as long as they are 'official' conspiracy theories.

Let's all believe exactly the same thing. And no more conspiracy theories except of course 'official', 'sanitised' versions. :hand:

We interrupt this conversation to have a short statement from our corporate sponsors (LOL) !!!

'Good evening ! '''Everything you've heard is true''' !! So says the trailer of the film, 'Amadeus'. And our cornflakes are much better than anyone else's'

and -

''Razor blades remain in short supply but the war with Eurasia is reaching a decisive phase. Pig iron production has also increased by 2% in the last month'.

(Approved for broadcast by the Ministry of Truth who, next Tuesday, will be staging a concert of piano concertos by the Salzburg genius W.A. Mozart for our cultural education. Guaranteed to be free from genetically modified contents, artificial colourings and additives, and...... ). :crash:

///

Some Caccini-Caussin-Cosyn music in honour and memory of sweet Queen Charlotte (and her top page Frederic Nicolay) who had the kindness to buy it* in an auction, 1779, and preserve it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69sFhS6DRiY

(The Cosyn Virginals Book; circa 1620. The British Library, R.M.23.l.4., ff. 102v-103r. Copyright © The British Library Board)

*See: http://www.bl.uk/reshelp/findhelpres...icnicolay.html

This is fun music. Whether it belongs to a much larger piece with more variations I do not know. But it is very nice without once challenging us or taxing our ears.

Thanks for this Yanni

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yanni

Some Caccini-Caussin-Cosyn music in honour and memory of sweet Queen Charlotte (and her top page Frederic Nicolay) who had the kindness to buy it* in an auction, 1779, and preserve it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69sFhS6DRiY

(The Cosyn Virginals Book; circa 1620. The British Library, R.M.23.l.4., ff. 102v-103r. Copyright © The British Library Board)

*See: http://www.bl.uk/reshelp/findhelpres...icnicolay.html

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A musical offering for Yanni. Best wishes -
Robert Newman

Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Sonata K9
Mark Swartzentruber

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Yavu...eature=related

and -

Antonio Vivaldi (1678-1741)
Concerto RV 522
Op. 3 No. 8 "L'estro Armonico"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7E-RTI-H2oI

//

Alternatively: Anglosaxon Cloak and Dagger stories.
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Of particular music interest for this thread are Frederic Nicolay's duties as "music administrator-librarian" to the royal couple, his hosting of both Mozart and Haydn, as well as his undertaking to "prepare Handel's manuscripts for binding, probably in the 1780s".

Frederic Nicolay was furthermore blood related to a "Carl Ludwig von Nicolay", of the german branch of the family, who died 1820 in Vyborg, Carelia, today Finnland. CLvN has been already identified in previous threads as comte de Saint Germain's last alias. His, practically empty, biography includes no family details.

Fred.Nicolay's three sons however ...

Frederick's three sons were: George Louisa, named after the King and Queen of Denmark who were his sponsors, Frederick and William. Reverend George Louisa Nicolay became Rector of St Michael Paternoster Royal in the City of London and Chaplain to Prince Frederick, Duke of York and Albany[14] Frederick became Chief Clerk to the British Treasury[15]. Lieutenant-General Sir William Nicolay K.C.H., C.B. (B.1771) became a distinguished army officer in The Royal Artillery, Royal Staff Corps, Royal Engineers and the King's German Legion. He was present at a number of significant battles and was decorated for his exemplary command of 5 companies of the Royal Staff Corps at the Battle of Waterloo. Sir William went on to become Governor of St Kitts, Mauritius & Dominica and was made a Knight Commander of the Royal Guelphic Order (KCH). He died at Oriel Lodge, Cheltenham, England on the 3rd May 1842.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolay_(family)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_...ch_von_Nicolai

Yes, there is no doubt that Frederic Nicolay (1728-1809) had a remarkable career (being host to both Mozart and Haydn etc in London and involved with Handel manuscripts) and was an important contact for both men in England. His name appears (I believe) in a list made by Leopold Mozart in Salzburg before the Mozart's even arrived in London. There can be no doubt he was a man of much importance in the musical/social regime of his time.

Nicolay (at least officially) arrived from Saxe-Gotha (therefore with permission of Queen Charlotte) and by 1751 had entered the Royal Household as Assistant to the Dancing Master to the Prince of Wales (the future George III). He rose to a related position that included head page and also as librarian and was culturally very influential within the British royal court.

As I see it there are two largely unexplored areas in the music history of that time - the role of Venice and the role of the British Empire. Both were massive in the careers of virtually all the 'great' composers.

It is entirely possible Nicolay may have been an alias. But around this time (c.1751) that would not have been unusual. He lived in to the 19th century. I have some notes on him I will dig out. The fact that one of his sons went on to become a Knight Commander of the Royal Guelphic Order (KCH) strongly suggests his link with Germany.

The fact that

Thomas Arne (1710-1778)
Concerto No. 3
1st Mvt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jGP7WUbMr8

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yanni

Alternatively: Anglosaxon Cloak and Dagger stories.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Of particular music interest for this thread are Frederic Nicolay's duties as "music administrator-librarian" to the royal couple, his hosting of both Mozart and Haydn, as well as his undertaking to "prepare Handel's manuscripts for binding, probably in the 1780s".

Frederic Nicolay was furthermore blood related to a "Carl Ludwig von Nicolay", of the german branch of the family, who died 1820 in Vyborg, Carelia, today Finnland. CLvN has been already identified in previous threads as comte de Saint Germain's last alias. His, practically empty, biography includes no family details.

Fred.Nicolay's three sons however ...

Frederick's three sons were: George Louisa, named after the King and Queen of Denmark who were his sponsors, Frederick and William. Reverend George Louisa Nicolay became Rector of St Michael Paternoster Royal in the City of London and Chaplain to Prince Frederick, Duke of York and Albany[14] Frederick became Chief Clerk to the British Treasury[15]. Lieutenant-General Sir William Nicolay K.C.H., C.B. (B.1771) became a distinguished army officer in The Royal Artillery, Royal Staff Corps, Royal Engineers and the King's German Legion. He was present at a number of significant battles and was decorated for his exemplary command of 5 companies of the Royal Staff Corps at the Battle of Waterloo. Sir William went on to become Governor of St Kitts, Mauritius & Dominica and was made a Knight Commander of the Royal Guelphic Order (KCH). He died at Oriel Lodge, Cheltenham, England on the 3rd May 1842.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolay_(family)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_...ch_von_Nicolai

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Nicolai, Christoph Friedrich (1733-1811), code name: Lucian. Bookseller and publisher, Berlin; founder, along with Lessing and Mendelssohn, of the Bibliothek der schonen Wissenschaften (Library of Fine Philosophy) and the periodical, Briefe, die neueste Literatur betreffend; editor of the journal Allgemeine Deutsche Bibliothek. His circle: Lessing, Mendelssohn, Herder, Goethe, Schiller, Kant and Fichte; and, perhaps most notably for the present study, Adam Weishaupt himself

Nicolai was the focal point of the German/Prussian Aufklädrung (Enlightenment); and, along with his partners Lessing and Mendelssohn, he was largely responsible for it. Nicolai was undoubtedly Weishaupt's main source for procuring books and journals, and from that acquaintance was likely initiated into the Order himself. Subsequently, the Illuminati would publish many pamphlets, articles and revolutionary tracts through this most important channel.

To stress the importance of Nicolai to the dissemination of ideas during the German Enlightenment it is reported that his journal Allgemeine Deutsche Bibliothek, for instance, reviewed a staggering 80,000 books in forty years. It was "intended to review (and thereby to expose to as large a public as possible) the entire prose production of the time …" ( The Eighteenth Century German "Trivialroman" As Constructed By Literary History And Criticism)
http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/Illuminati.htm

Yanni's timeline extract:

17 july 1761, Sterlitz: "A" Colonel Graeme(Grimm*) writes to "Mr Mitchell ,upon Lord Harcourt's journey to demand the hand of the Princess of Mechlenburg-Sterlitz"
(Wikipedia: ....when his affianced bride Princess Charlotte of Mecklenburg-Strelitz was to be married to the King, his Majesty sent Frederick De Nicolay to attend his future Queen.)

Giessmannsdorf, 23. Juli 1761: Letter An den Hauptmann und Flügeladjutanten Freiherrn von Cocceji •Schreiber:Friedrich (Preußen, König, II.) •Empfänger:Cocceji, Johann Friedrich

On 8 September 1761, the King married in the Chapel Royal, St James's Palace, Duchess Sophia Charlotte of Mecklenburg-Strelitz, whom he met on their wedding day

September, 1761 One of the two little germans in Diderot’s circle in Paris was Ludwig Heinrich Nicolay**, 1737-1820. (Friedrich Dominicus Ring, éditeur de Diderot, p116.) see also L.H. Nicolay (1737-1820) and his contemporaries, by Edmund Heier

*FMGrimm is nowhere to be found 1761-1762, and his next record is in a letter by Frederick King of Prussia to his cousin Duchess of Saxen-Gotha: Potsdam, 22 juillet 1763, Madame ma cousine,J'ai de grandes obligations au sieur Grimm, ma chère duchesse, puisqu'il me procure une lettre de votre part, où vous m'assurez de votre précieux souvenir.Nous avons ici M. d'Alembert, qui vaut mieux encore en société qu'en ses livres

**notable members of the German branch of the House of Nicolay, including Baron Ludwig Heinrich von Nicolai - Private tutor of Emperor Paul I of Russia and his son Baron Paul Von Nicolay - Russia's State Council and the Tsarist Ambassador to London, Copenhagen and Stockholm. The family owned and developed the manor and park of Mon Repos (Vyborg) from 1788-1943.

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PS RICERCAR, Your Grace, ricercar,if You don't want to make a Fool or Liar of Yourself : http://www.online-literature.com/for...d.php?p=615557 post 32.

What a pity Yanni is back to his obscurantism again.

Can you summarise your last post for us Yanni ? It reads like the headlines of a pile of newspapers. What is the story ??

We don't want the dots but the spaces in between. Like this -

Antonio Vivaldi/Johann Sebastian Bach
Concerto
BWV 1065/3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfu4c...eature=related

Music had nowhere to go. Let's invent the music industry. LOL !!

Your, breathtaking in their wisdom, "hang it all on Rome" and "Mozart was manufactured" announcements, are monumental evidence of Your unique powers of summarising, Your Grace, as such, please allow me to keep the hope alive that it is Your Goodness who will put it in a nutshell for Your humble servant and Your rezpected congregation.

Preferably after finding Your notes on the Nicolais to compare to mine, that is.

Are we all supposed to walk the road to Heavenly Zion without Your enlightened guidance, cracking each his own nuts?


Allelujah!

Yanni,

It is not good to 'quote' others when they have not said the words you are 'quoting'. It doesn't help your reputation.

I have not said 'hang it all on Rome'. In fact, I have said the opposite. Let me repeat myself (once again) so you cannot possibly miss it.

The history of music with which most of us are familiar is an elaborate fiction. A version of events we subscribe to with minimal, if any, cross-examination. An elaborate fiction but a fiction all the same. It is, for a start, blatantly hiearchical. It has been patronised by elites, defined by them, and its products are taught as being the academic and cultural measure for everyone else to believe. The fashions of elites, the music of elites and the alleged generosity of these elites and of their 'genius' employees. So, eventually, even composers associated with hieararchical elites are seen as elites themselves. As 'great' composers. See the trend ? We arrive at a sanitised history of music which has elite ('great') composers who (academically and culturally) live (they say) on Mount Olympus. The names of a few composers literally dominate music and musical history and always have. Yes ? Thus, for example, far less than 1% of composers who lived and composed in Mozart's time are known to us, recorded, performed and taught. What sort of 'history' is that ? And, as for the rest, we delegate that to 'experts'. Imagine a mathematics where 99% of all achievements are simply ignored ? Or an astronomy, or an art history ? It's laughable. And publishers, teachers and editors expect you to consume an official version of musical 'history'. Even if their version is shown to be filled with exaggerations and gross falsehoods. Wherever you see hieararchies you will certainly find the same kind of corruption, vested interests, fictions, hidden truths, exaggerations and falsehoods. Does this make sense to you ? I mean, is it any different from what we find in any other sphere of western civilization ?

Mozart was of course manufactured in the same way Handel, Joseph Haydn, Gluck, Mozart, and even Beethoven were manufactured. But to prove it, to show it correct, we might focus on just one of these individuals. Allowing facts, actual evidence IN CONTEXT to speak for itself. Your Cocchis were certainly managers of this myth. Why not tell us what you know of that fact ? It was part of the agenda of these same ruling hierarchical elites. And it took lots of hierarchical people to achieve it.

Certain things are true. But they tend to be suppressed, edited out, ignored. Somebody actually wrote this music. But 'they' don't want you to know about their music and their cultural factory. They want you only to believe in individual 'geniuses' as 'great composers'. Their own. The exceptions to this rule are (and always were) the real history of music.

The music of the time we are discussing (mostly the 18th century) was written at a time when there was an EMPIRE. That meant those who wrote music were SERVANTS - members of its civil service. Or were ecclesiastical employees. There were virtually no individual composers. These came later.

Imagine a book on Mozart, or Gluck, or Haydn which ignores that fact ? Ignores the entire reality of those times ? Imagine a history of music which ignores the sheer dominanance of the aristocracy, their beliefs, the role of the organised churches, the fraternities, the patrons of music and their own role in music and musical performance ? Which gives us in its place a fairy story ? Welcome to the world of Mozart ! It would be as ridiculous as to write a book about World War One or World War 2 without refering to the armies who were fighting there, or the regiments or battles they fought, or the leaders of those armies. Music and its official history is like that. It focuses on the INDIVIDUAL and largely ignores the reality of how they individually lived, who really sponsored them, who promoted them, made them, advertised them, what they (these composers) actually believed, the details of their influences, the fraternal and other networks to which they belonged and on which they relied.

Individualism is a great thing Yanni. But during the last decades of the Holy Roman EMPIRE that corrupt system (which had literally dominated Europe for centuries) was itself massively changing to become a secular EMPIRE. The name of that time is called (romantically) the 'Enlightenment', but it was designed also. It had the same corrupt, lying, vested interests as it directors - as before. The Cocchi clan (whom you are interested in) were certainly involved in 'managing' this movement (musically) as were many others. So were the occultists of Venice. So were the occultists of the British Empire. And so were the occultists of the Holy Roman Empire. So were many Freemasons and all the usual vested interests. So were the fake Jews and the fake Christians. Who would eventually write the 'history of music' as we know it, complete with its iconic 'great' composers. Part of the cultural side of globalism. As for the actual facts, well, these could be and were twisted, perverted, invented, attributed, by a new emerging music industry.

We really have to escape from this idea of 'great' composers. Of 'genius' composers. (Terms we never seem able to define). The fact is what was not part of the mainstream culture of the elites was ignored. And THAT is the real history of music.

You have refered to Gluck and other composers. These are artificially made careers whose origins were (of course) with the same hiearachical elites. It all goes back to academic and cultural CONTROL. Control of what is taught, believed, absorbed, consumed, and what is almost never cross-examined.

As for your 'irreverence' it's no more relevant than my reverence. Is it ? What we are interested in is to examine these issues fairly in the light of the actual, available evidence. So we can make up our minds having heard both sides of the story. Can't get fairer than that, can we ?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY3Tc...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WKql...eature=related

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by yanni

Your, breathtaking in their wisdom, "hang it all on Rome" and "Mozart was manufactured" announcements, are monumental evidence of Your unique powers of summarising, Your Grace, as such, please allow me to keep the hope alive that it is Your Goodness who will put it in a nutshell for Your humble servant and Your rezpected congregation.

Preferably after finding Your notes on the Nicolais to compare to mine, that is.

Are we all supposed to walk the road to Heavenly Zion without Your enlightened guidance, cracking each his own nuts?


Allelujah!

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