Evolution vs. Creation

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by atiguhya padma

Childish in the same sense that the tooth fairy, santa claus, and any other insufficient and inexplicable explanation for 'miraculous' phenomena is created by or given to pre-modern or pre-adult thinkers. Illogical and miraculous explanations seem to satisfy childish minds as explanations for occurrences. When people grow up, they tend to grow weary with such explanations. Some even realise their traditional folkloric and mythological roots.

---

Neither the tooth fairy and Santa Clause are part of a larger narrative that attempts to answer the questions of existence, morality, human depravity and the solution to the existence of evil and suffering. Try to find comparisons that are comparable.

As far as I'm concerned, the truly "childish mind" is the mind that decides that all of reality should be defined by that mind and that mind alone. Such egocentrism (the idea that human beings are the measure of reality) is really the hallmark of the so-called "childish mind" because children cannot really comprehend that there is a world that exists outside of themselves; as they mature into adults, they realize the complexity of the world, and the necessity of giving place to the reality that other people exist, and that their rather simple view of the world as revolving around them is inaccurate.

Finally, Christianity is not based on mythological/folkloric roots: as C.S. Lewis has correctly said, pre-Christian mythology was the harbinger of Christ: they were the fictional/mythical "echo" of what Christ would manifest the reality of. The so-called "roots" are actually the flashes of light before the actual sound of the thunder arrived.

Quote:

---

As far as I'm concerned, the truly "childish mind" is the mind that decides that all of reality should be defined by that mind and that mind alone. Such egocentrism (the idea that human beings are the measure of reality) is really the hallmark of the so-called "childish mind" because children cannot really comprehend that there is a world that exists outside of themselves; as they mature into adults, they realize the complexity of the world, and the necessity of giving place to the reality that other people exist, and that their rather simple view of the world as revolving around them is inaccurate.

Finally, Christianity is not based on mythological/folkloric roots: as C.S. Lewis has correctly said, pre-Christian mythology was the harbinger of Christ: they were the fictional/mythical "echo" of what Christ would manifest the reality of. The so-called "roots" are actually the flashes of light before the actual sound of the thunder arrived.

---

These are great points, Red. It's amazing how educated the people on LitNet are.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adolescent09

These are great points, Red. It's amazing how educated the people on LitNet are.

---

Thank you. I am greatful for your kind words. :)

The erroneous belief in evolution is both a by-product of and a cause of atheism. There are those who think it is off-topic to notice the effect this has on communities and societies. The UK (temporary thing) is today darker and worse off as a result of the clouds of atheism. Only in those areas where Christian communities survive is there sustained sacrificial charity and the blood doner units know where to go if they want blood - and it's not into the heart of darkness in the modern UK. Off topic? No way! But bound to offend some as the truth always does

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ennison

The erroneous belief in evolution is both a by-product of and a cause of atheism. There are those who think it is off-topic to notice the effect this has on communities and societies. The UK (temporary thing) is today darker and worse off as a result of the clouds of atheism. Only in those areas where Christian communities survive is there sustained sacrificial charity and the blood doner units know where to go if they want blood - and it's not into the heart of darkness in the modern UK. Off topic? No way! But bound to offend some as the truth always does

---

Discrimination against atheists is seen once again. {edit} Come to the US and watch christians beat up and harass atheists because they don't believe in God. Who's the wrong one there? Are you saying atheists lack morals? {edit}

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ennison

The erroneous belief in evolution is both a by-product of and a cause of atheism. There are those who think it is off-topic to notice the effect this has on communities and societies. The UK (temporary thing) is today darker and worse off as a result of the clouds of atheism. Only in those areas where Christian communities survive is there sustained sacrificial charity and the blood doner units know where to go if they want blood - and it's not into the heart of darkness in the modern UK. Off topic? No way! But bound to offend some as the truth always does

---

Just because religion does some good - even if it does a lot of good - it doesn't make it right.

That's the problem. I like and admire many chrsitians and I will be the first to tell you that many christians are good-hearted, generous people. So are many atheists.

I would be enormously surprised if atheists and humanists aren't every bit as generous and good-hearted as christians. The problem is with "apathetic agnostics" or the non-religious who just don't have any interest in the eternal verities. The lowest common denominator of society, if you will. Unfortunately, many christians, as well as being generous and good-hearted, tend to lump those non-religious people in with atheists as a group, which in terms of a descriptor, is fair, but in terms of philosophy, is not.

An atheist - to me (and I am, after all, THE Atheist) - is a person who has looked at the evidence for and against gods and has reached a decision that the "god" option is an empty shell. Much as christians will argue that only xyz are True Christians, I resent being classed with people who are too lazy or too ignorant even to think about these questions.

I know sufficient atheists [as described] and christians to be able to assure you that they are every bit as humanist and caring as any christian.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hyperborean

Discrimination against atheists is seen once again. {edit} Come to the US and watch christians beat up and harass atheists because they don't believe in God. Who's the wrong one there? Are you saying atheists lack morals? {edit}

---

You know, Hyper, not every Christian is out to harass you. I have been a Minister since 1982. My stand on this issue has always been clear-- I believe in God and that Creation took place. I believe that God's creatures have since evolved, and continue to do so. I call no one by any bad names, and step in for the defense if others do. If you can point out any place where I have offended, I will make it right with you. That's as fair as a man can be. I stick by my word. You have a nice day. You may rest assured that even though you cannot believe in God (which I do not hold against you, why should I, pray tell?), I will still pray for you. If I cannot show kindness, I am not much of a Christian.

God Bless.

Pen

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ennison

The erroneous belief in evolution is both a by-product of and a cause of atheism. There are those who think it is off-topic to notice the effect this has on communities and societies. The UK (temporary thing) is today darker and worse off as a result of the clouds of atheism. Only in those areas where Christian communities survive is there sustained sacrificial charity and the blood doner units know where to go if they want blood - and it's not into the heart of darkness in the modern UK. Off topic? No way! But bound to offend some as the truth always does

---

Without the existence of christians there would be no charity in the world.

Right.

And the four billion plus people on earth who are not christians spend their time either ignoring each other, or callously using each other as merely objects and means to an end.

Right.

.
.
.
.
.

When donkeys fly.

<As far as I'm concerned, the truly "childish mind" is the mind that decides that all of reality should be defined by that mind and that mind alone.>

So I take it, for you, all of reality is not defined by your religious beliefs then?

Creating a wider narrative around silly notions certainly does not improve the prospects of those notions. Besides, what makes you think that there isn't such a narrative associated with a belief in fairies?

To claim that christianity was not based on pre-Christian mythology you would need to demonstrate some kind of immunity to the Roman and Greek influences that would have been a daily occurrence in the days of the gospel writers. Bearing in mind that at least one of the New Testament writers was Roman himself, I would suggest that is a tall order.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pendragon

You know, Hyper, not every Christian is out to harass you. I have been a Minister since 1982. My stand on this issue has always been clear-- I believe in God and that Creation took place. I believe that God's creatures have since evolved, and continue to do so. I call no one by any bad names, and step in for the defense if others do. If you can point out any place where I have offended, I will make it right with you. That's as fair as a man can be. I stick by my word. You have a nice day. You may rest assured that even though you cannot believe in God (which I do not hold against you, why should I, pray tell?), I will still pray for you. If I cannot show kindness, I am not much of a Christian.

God Bless.

Pen

---

Maybe you don't discriminate against atheists, but many Christians do.

I believe in God as well, but I on the other hand took the leash off my collar.

I replaced the word 'gender' with 'religion' in Judith Butler's Gender Trouble

and nothing happened. It still didn't make sense.

The Bible is nothing more than a code of ethics, which many people claim to live their life by, but don't - me included.

Why does anyone care if God exists or not? It's not like you have to believe that He exists to live by a code of ethics -- and even if you could prove that he exists, then what? Are we going to be contempt and quit living life because we know the end? Is He going to come to my anti-birthday party?

' Oh, Jesus got so drunk and pushed over the poker table. Some weird Freudian problem he has'

The issue seems to be enlightenment - solving philosophical problems is enlightenment for us (see Plato); but should it be? What happens in Lear:

Nothing! x5

and nobody can explain the same word repeated five times.

So find enlightenment elsewhere? Hmm. I wonder where? Maybe in literature? We all like books, right?

I believe in evolution, but not evolution as an answer. I believe there is no answer, and therefore we shouldn't go looking for it since there is no proof. Everything in a sense is relative, and one cannot even proof that existence exists.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by atiguhya padma

So I take it, for you, all of reality is not defined by your religious beliefs then?

---

Not by my beliefs, no; by God? Yes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by atiguhya padma

Creating a wider narrative around silly notions certainly does not improve the prospects of those notions. Besides, what makes you think that there isn't such a narrative associated with a belief in fairies?

---

"Silly" to you. Provide me the narrative associated with fairies that attempts to answer to cosmic questions that Christianity does, please.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by atiguhya padma

To claim that christianity was not based on pre-Christian mythology you would need to demonstrate some kind of immunity to the Roman and Greek influences that would have been a daily occurrence in the days of the gospel writers. Bearing in mind that at least one of the New Testament writers was Roman himself, I would suggest that is a tall order.

---

Suggest away - because the Bible tells us that God implanted "eternity" in our hearts and an awareness of God; as such, it is perfectly reasonable for Lewis to argue that prefigurations of Christ were anticipations, not models, of the myth-made-real to come.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Redzeppelin

Not by my beliefs, no; by God? Yes.

---

Fundamentalism 101: god exists, QED.






.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Redzeppelin

Provide me the narrative associated with fairies that attempts to answer to cosmic questions that Christianity does, please.

---

But what is the point of it all if you can't verify this cosmic origins that you speak of and you say you does not need verification - so all this is quite meaningless isn't it? You might as well believe in anything - even the Great Elephant Tree in the Sky because you don't have to verify it.