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Absolutely! I mean I only spent 5 years getting a degree. I've worked hard to make a name for myself in my field. I have security and independence. The minute I get my claws into a fat wallet I get to give all that up!!!!:cheers2: whooo hooo!!:sosp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Scheherazade
Humm.....about money it may buy happiness but it does not buy beauty or attractiveness and that is when money is truly powerless.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Scheherazade
I'm wondering why so much money is spent on surgical beautification which seems to be becoming a major industry.Quote:
Originally Posted by cacian
Of course I did think of surgical beautification but one can only play with what they already have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emil Miller
I have yet to see someone that achieve natural beauty after plastic surgeries. The more you plastify and the more fake and horrifying the face looks.That is from what I have seen and that is my opinion.
I can tell straight away that someone has had botox, lifting you name it and it is glaringly distracting.
This process of beautification does not make any one less or more attractive from when they began.In fact it makes them less natural.
I must add however that this exclude individuals who have had disfigurations of any kind because their case is very different and yes in this instance I admit that beautification has had a positive and life changing experiences.
However, if you are right, why do so many people undergo the trauma and expense of this service?Quote:
Originally Posted by cacian
You are right. Heaps of women are not looking for men. Heaps of women have been burned by guys who treat them awfully and as a result carefully guard their hearts and fear falling in love. These are the ones who have the potential to really crush a man. If you fall in love with one of these you are in for a rough time. It happened to me once long ago and I still sometimes feel a great sadness over it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta40
well there are many reasons why people do and that is I am sure a very good reason to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emil Miller
There are all sorts of motifs to why people do what they do.
One could be that they were bullied about their looks when they were young and so as a feel good factor they entertain the idea of surgery to erase those memories. Those people were not necessarily unpleasant looking but because of the trauma they were put under when they were young made them opt out for surgery because they really believe what the bullies told them about their looks.
Another reason could be that they are the victims of glossy magazines and media that make them believe that unless they achieve the perfect look a model type of look , a barbie look for example, then they are no good.
I personally call it media bullying towards people. Media is devisive and uses images to upset you and tell you that you ought to look like a designer picture. Beauty by design if you like.
Many people already feel that they have to conform to what the TV and the celebrity tag seek out to sell. It is this constant bubble of images with flauless sking and skinny bodies almost inanimate looking which are bombarded with day in day out. We all know deep down this is just a work of fiction, a type realityanime if you like, unatainable if not impossible task.
IT just like fashism an idealism dictated by the media with constand computer generated images that is very deceiving and achieves nothing but unhappiness.
I think we are now at stage were we are surrounded with plastic beauty on a plate feelings put aside. Just cold looking faces more and more botoxed and lifted it is almost scary. I call it the empty look. There is nothing human about it.
I mean you are to disagree with me but that is how I feel about it.
One has to also add that plastic surgery is highly addictive and apparently once you start you cannot stop it is almost junky like feeling about it. I do not like needles and knives and that is plastic surgery is all about and of course ultimately money whihc goes without saying.
I’ve been reading a couple of articles today on why women are attracted for the bad boy alpha male types. It would be interesting to hear what others think about any of the points raised in any of them – especially those people criticising me. Here’s one for example:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/artic...al-the-bad-boyQuote:
From a Darwinian point of view, females are the choosier sex, and males compete for their attention. The result of this competition is that men have evolved strategies such as seeking alpha status.
For me this is just a dash of common sense – females have to be the choosier sex evolutionary speaking, as they have less reproduction potential in comparison to men. It might be worth pointing out though that if women were really attracted primarily to humour, intelligence and politeness why men, some men, adopt alpha male strategies to beat the competition! Could it simply be that women are attracted to alpha male characteristics? Or is this article just misogynist propaganda?
Cont…
One point raised here for me would be the difference between short and long term relationships. This is something not taken into account with the poll I don’t think. You’d think that there wouldn’t be a difference – that you would be attracted to who you are attracted to, but apparently there is room for different markets.Quote:
The more likely a relationship is to be fleeting, the more likely a woman is to seek a man with high quality genes. Evolutionary psychologists define "good genes" for men as high-testosterone-fueled masculinity, symmetry, height, and, believe it or not, parasite resistance. Men who are blessed with these qualities tend to be confident and dominant. And able to get away with roguish behavior.
It's not all a positive for them, since they are also more prone to taking risks and getting into fights and accidents. Still, they offer a primal appeal that would have been advantageous in the ancestral setting—fighting skills, passion, lust for the damsel.
"Women intuitively get attracted to brave acts of altruism more than to altruism per se," says Daniel Kruger of the University of Michigan, principal author of a study on "dads and cads." "A distinction between long-term and short-term relationships is important for understanding women's partner choices." A love of boldness helps women find strong males as mates. Secretly they harbor the fantasy of turning their genetically gifted cads into loving dads who stick around long-term, long enough to help raise the kids. Think Warren Beatty and Keith Richards; fairy tales sometimes come true.
But wait; don't all women want a kind, understanding guy? Of course; it's just that nice isn't a high-caliber turn-on in the short term, unlike bravado. Says Kruger, "Women want their emotions activated." And audacity grabs attention, even if only in the service of marshaling good genes.
A clue to female psychology emerges in a study examining the cheesy best sellers that set millions of women on a Harlequin high. The male protagonists are invariably studs on steeds who morph into devoted dads by novel's end. That is, the women get the best of both worlds.
That second point is also interesting to me is the ideal of 'domesticating the bad boy.' This is something that is oft repeated I find. Personally it reminds of Cecily in 'The Importance of Being Earnest' who is attracted bad boy Algernon (before she has even met him!) who in turn uses that image in winning her affection, he says “I want you to reform me. You might make that your mission, if you don't mind, cousin Cecily.” Although Cecily can give as good as she gets replying - ‘I'm afraid I've no time, this afternoon’ she still clearly fantasied and fantasies about him in order to escape her rather dull and conservative upbringing, to bring a little excitement to her life.
I guess the main point in bringing up this article to show that there is actually some logic behind the alpha male business and that it is not just me that has invented it.
In this article, which I remember hearing about before elsewhere ages ago, it suggests that what women find attractive actually changes during ovulation. (This unnerves me.) This is old news perhaps but it also supports the idea that, genetically speaking, that women are attracted to the alpha male types and hints at the reforming idea again.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0514134301.htm
Interesting to notice the world ‘delude’ here, which is exactly the word I used before I was come down upon like a ton of bricks. It again suggests that there might be a difference between what woman say they like, in theory, like in a poll such as this, and in the heat of the moment. It concludes:Quote:
Research from Kristina Durante, assistant professor of marketing at The University of Texas at San Antonio (UTSA) College of Business, finds that hormones associated with ovulation influence women's perceptions of men as potential fathers.
"Previous research has shown in the week near ovulation women become attracted to sexy, rebellious and handsome men like George Clooney or James Bond," said Durante. "But until now it was unclear why women would ever think it's wise to pursue long-term relationships with these kinds of men."
In the first study women viewed online dating profiles of either a sexy man or a reliable man during periods of both high and low fertility. Participants were asked to indicate the expected paternal contribution from the men if they had a child together based on how helpful the man would be caring for the baby, shopping for food, cooking and contributing to household chores. Near ovulation women thought that the sexy man would contribute more to these domestic duties.
"Under the hormonal influence of ovulation, women delude themselves into thinking that the sexy bad boys will become devoted partners and better dads," explained Durante. "When looking at the sexy cad through ovulation goggles, Mr. Wrong looked exactly like Mr. Right."
Quote:
"While this psychological distortion could be setting some women up to choose partners who are better suited to be short-term mates, missing a mating opportunity with a sexy cad might be too costly for some women to pass up," said Durante. "After all, you never know if he could be the 'one'."
Yeah right! I’m sure he could be ‘reformed’, anyway…
This last paragraph also reminded me of something I once heard or read. (I definitely tried to bury it because it is too horrible.) This suggested that women are only too happy to mate with the ‘cad’ and marry the ‘dad’ (ouch awful phrases, but not mine...) Whether this was intentional or evolutionary I can’t remember, but it is just too horrible, even for an evil, sexist, misogynist like me, that just can’t be true can it?
On the whole though, there is plenty of stuff out there that support the point that women are attracted to the alpha male type, whether this is overt confidence or rugged good looks or something along those lines. It’s certainly not intelligence or politeness that’s for sure - in fact probably something quite opposite to politeness, certainly as first attractant.
Does it occur to you guys that women might have noticed that humanity has ventured out of caves for while now and that how Alpha male is viewed has changed?
There is little need for 'hunters' and intelligence helps more in the way of survival these days.
This is it I think. I have no need for a strong well built man, at the moment I just need someone who can connect my laptop and dvd to the tv.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scheherazade
{edit}
As for the quoted articles, I was interested to discover that I'm an unreformed sexy cad but sorry to admit that I have never been a stud on a steed, although I did once go on a donkey ride when I was about three-years-old.
In all honesty, I have never worried about female ovulation or whether they want to reform a cad into a dad, or an Alpha male into a Beta male which is perhaps a better analogy. It seems to me that we should, through trial and error, go through relationships until we find someone who matches up to what we are looking for or at the end of the day simply give it up as bad job.
Right? I would love to have somebody to get up on the ladder to change the recessed light bulbs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Helga
This process of beautification does not make any one less or more attractive from when they began.In fact it makes them less natural.
I must add however that this exclude individuals who have had disfigurations of any kind because their case is very different and yes in this instance I admit that beautification has had a positive and life changing experiences.
Now this is surely contradictory. It seems you want it both ways. Plastic surgery does not make an individual look more attractive... except when it does make someone look more attractive?
SLG (quote)- I will also say, in Neely's favor, that it may be difficult not to imagine that something as "shallow" as material wealth is a major factor in sexual attraction... especially when one of the first questions many women will ask in the bar/nightclub situation is "So, what do you do?" This is followed with a clear recognition that answering "I'm a doctor" or "I'm a lawyer" or "I'm an investment banker" is far more likely to impress than declaring "I'm a school teacher" or "I'm unemployed at the moment".
JuniperWoolf- This is seen by a large chunk of women as one of the most humiliating female stereotypes and I like it that women argue against it, because I hope that it ceases to be so prevalent. Do you not see how devoid that notion is of pride for someone who works hard to develop themselves to hear someone say “women are attracted to big wallets?”
Did I say "All women...." or "Most women...?" You effectively misinterpret my comments by removing them from the context. For example... in the very next sentence after the above quote, I wrote:
Of course, this could also be the result of the context. One might presume that women on the prowl for a wealthy husband may frequent the nightclubs more often than they hang out in the book stores, library, etc...
I went on to suggest of stereotypes:
Most stereotypes have a degree of truth to them... which is why they arose in the first place... But ultimately such stereotypes may not represent anywhere near the majority of the group the purport to represent...
Now are you suggesting that there are not women who are not on the prowl for a wealthy husband and who willing trade their appearances in for gold? Where does the term "trophy wife" come from? Do you believe the following women were attracted to these men as a result of their baby blue eyes, kindness, and sense of humor?
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...b2642eec2a.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...5de3263ddc.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...2e6e87d3c5.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...96e5ceab37.jpg
The way we’re talked about, it’s like older men think we’re all schemers who are looking for a free ride.
No one has suggested any such thing. As I suggested above, Neely's experiences with women in bars scoping out a guy with a Mercedes of BMW may indeed have simply been the result of the context. None of the girls I dated were hunting for a rich husband... but pretty much all of the girls I dated I met at work or school or at a book store or art gallery... and not a nightclub.
61% of Canadian university graduates were female in 2007, there are more females with at least a bachelor's degree in my country than there are men. Top of the class was female for every class I've had except three.
So... you should have gone to school with me... because I was always the top student in my class.:D:yesnod:
"What do you do" is how people are weighed and measured in modern society, it's how you frame someone's identity and worth in your mind when you meet them. It's not fair to blame that whole trend on women.
Here, perhaps you are right. There is an unfortunate tendency by a great many to base their opinion on another person's worth... intelligence... even their motivation or lack thereof... upon their income.
Neely... have you ever come upon this article?
http://www.denisdutton.com/aesthetic...psychology.htm
It suggests that to a certain extent, even the arts may have initially evolved (a retain a certain residual element thereof) as a result of sexual selection and the desire to impress women.
Hey... I recall a certain light going on in my head :idea: back in high-school when a couple girls started to pay attention to me because of my ability to draw Tweety Bird and other cartoon characters. Of course, that's why I've kept at it all these years... fame, fortune, and all those art groupies!:p
So you are saying that women are immediately attracted to intelligent looking men, not at all looks or any of the alpha male characteristics, but intelligence? So maybe men who read chemistry textbooks or advanced economics are seen as 'hot stuff'? This is what you are saying then yes?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scheherazade
http://rdcltci.files.wordpress.com/2.../brad_pitt.jpg
Not attractive?
http://www.dreamstime.com/man-with-g...mb21836757.jpg
Attractive?
:nonod:
I don't think so. I have bookmarked it thanks.Quote:
Neely... have you ever come upon this article?
http://www.denisdutton.com/aesthetic...psychology.htm
Yep, you are right, we have changed; that is why men are no longer attracted to large breasts and curvy thighs, those are such primeval things, and I am glad to say we have moved beyond that. Alpha-male, Alpha-female-pshht - confidence is such a turn off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scheherazade
Me: the gambler, the drunk, the reckless and the aloof, the man in love with himself and only himself, the one disinterested with the world and of an old and wealthy family. All these traits are such unbelievable turn-off's for women that I am thinking to make myself gay, as these are qualities which are better appreciated by men.