The Art Thread

I quite like Diebenkorn's work myself. He... and the whole of the so-called California/San Francisco School of Figurative Art are far more rooted in the colorist tradition of French Modernism... Matisse, Bonnard, Degas, Monet, Vuillard than in Picasso, Cubsim, Surrealism, Dada and Formalist Abstraction... which had a far greater impact upon the paintings of the New York School.

One needs only look at these paintings by Matisse:


http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...errace1901.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/..._matisse51.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...matisse100.jpg

... to see where Diebenkorn's Ocean Park series is coming from. It may also owe much to the light and landscape of California... so different from the urban environment of New York... that led the California painters to look to a different group of artists for inspiration.

Other interesting painters from the California School include:

Elmer Bischoff:

Bischoff merged elements of the rich painterly brushwork of Van Gogh, Soutine... and DeKooning with the color and everyday subject matter of Impressionism and Post-Impressionism... and a nod to Edward Hopper's views of the American landscapes and cityscapes:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...0PET-047-E.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...xjpg-550x0.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...rofile1960.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...52d0be91_z.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...46ca3692_z.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...40jpeg_700.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...an_On_Sofa.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...schoff_L-3.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...hoff_TN-11.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...566x56-p51.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...h_CA6ZZZXI.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...h_CAYDM3MV.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...Bischoff_1.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...sson_EB_p0.jpg

Bischoff's paintings... like most of the works of the California School... were incredibly juicy in their paint handling:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...rbischoff2.jpg

David Park:

Park was another leading figure of the California School. His paintings employed an even broader use of the brush than Bischoff... and a subject matter suggestive of Social Realists such as Walt Kuhn, Isabel Bishop, and Raphael Soyer:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...th_12am235.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...david-park.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...-TuttArt32.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...1954SFMOMA.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...IIh1qa1cnp.jpg

Paul Wonner:

Wonner was still another leading figure in the California School:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...hio/th_055.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...hio/th_202.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...io/th_0531.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/..._199745_1b.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...7714wonner.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...io/th_Gods.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...m-filtered.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...ON-017-500.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...nnerWoman2.jpg

Rolland Petersen:

Another senior figure in the Bay Area Figurative School, Petersen focused as much upon pattern as on color making him stand out among other painters of the group:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...0PET-042-E.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...0PET-068-E.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/..._Rowboat_1.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...397070-001.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...d-petersen.jpg

Joan Brown:

The California School was somewhat unique in that a number of the leading painters were women. Joan Brown was part of what is considered the second generation of the California School of Painting. She studied under Elmer Bischoff and was married to the sculptor, Manuel Neri. Many of her early paintings allude to art historical/Biblical themes merged with references to her personal life/inclusion of friends/lovers/and her dog.

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...th_12am234.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...1c47a10f_z.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...8769840472.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...hio/th_JB4.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...hio/th_JB5.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...hio/th_JB6.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...hio/th_JB9.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...an_brown20.jpg

You gotta appreciate the clown who tries to copyright his photographs of someone else' paintings. The Supreme Court, by the way, ruled that photographs of original art works are themselves not "original" works of art and cannot be afforded copyright protection.

Another marvelous female painter of the school is Linda Petersen:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...in-kitchen.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...fruit-bowl.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...o/th_lg_81.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...ning-water.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/.../th_studio.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...hio/th_tea.jpg

The impact of the San Francisco/Bay Area/California School of Figurative Painting... which was at its peak during the 1950s and early 1960s... continues into the work of any number of contemporary artists.

Kevin Bean's figurative paintings are based upon non-descript family snapshots. These are filtered through the haze of memory... losing all details but gaining the "perfume" of atmosphere and mood wrought by his expressive use of color:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...ging-Light.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...uation-Day.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...-Listening.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...th_IMG0045.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...3-60x50-oc.jpg

Another marvelous female painter working in the tradition of the California School is Kyle (pronounced Ki [with a long I] Lee) Staver, a New York artist who merges elements of the French Intimist (Matisse, Bonnard, Vuillard) tradition... which was itself a major inspiration for the California School... with the painterliness and funky drawing of the Bay Area artists:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...days_paper.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...rning_bath.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...ggie_paint.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...fall_paint.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...selanterns.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...th_hammock.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8047/8...f61b9799_m.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8329/8...ecc9d0a1_m.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8051/8...e0cf5fd5_m.jpg

Another interesting artist who has built upon the tradition of the California School is Stephanie Kim Frohsin, whose paintings owe as much to the graphic elements of Pop Art and 1960s psychedelic posters (another California art form) as to the Bay Area School.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8331/8...92248e22_m.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8051/8...8c9821ef_m.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8196/8...077a14cf_m.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8187/8...2773ccfe_m.jpg

My own work is far more traditionally rendered than the work of the California School... but I have long appreciated their paintings... and especially their mastery of an expressive use of color.

Quote:

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Originally posted by stlukesguild

I might add that I also suspect that outside of the quotes you found on the internet, you actually have never read Goethe. If you had... you'd be aware of his vulgar Walpurgisnacht as well as a any number of erotic poems that surely challenge his quote on "taste". Or one might alternatively suggest that it is likely that Goethe's concept of "taste" may not be at all in line with what you think of as "taste".

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I had to read…...there was no free lunch at school. :lol:

I don’t separate the work of the artist from his life.
I can be moved by erotic poetry written by a young man……but Goethe was 64 when he fell in love with 18 years old woman and 74 when he proposed to 19 years old. It is disgusting.

It reminds me about Luis Falero’s “Faust’s Vision"

http://img3387.imagevenue.com/loc555..._123_555lo.jpg


And Annibale Carracci, An allegory of Truth and Time , Royal Collection, London,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CA...e_(1584-5).JPG


But I will read his Theory of Colors and I totally agree with him that “personality is everything in art and poetry" So, I don’t throw everything in the garbage bin. :p

I don’t separate the work of the artist from his life.
I can be moved by erotic poetry written by a young man……but Goethe was 64 when he fell in love with 18 years old woman and 74 when he proposed to 19 years old. It is disgusting.

The inability to separate the artist from the art work becomes problematic when the individual bases their judgments of the artist's achievements not upon the art but upon their judgments of the artist's personal life. I think many might question just what gives anyone the right to set themselves up as the judge of the personal lives of others. Goethe is "disgusting" because he still had erotic feelings at 64? I guess that means Peter Paul Rubens was a real pervert, after all he married a 16-year old that he was passionately in love with at age 53... and went on to have a slew of children with her. And what of all those homosexuals? Ewwww! How disgusting. I'll never look at a Michelangelo painting again.:rolleyes5:

Quote:

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Originally posted by stlukesguild
The inability to separate the artist from the art work

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It is not inability but a choice. It is a big difference. Yes, for me it is disgusting for 74 old man to have erotic thoughts about 19 years old. I am a female and we may differ in opinion. However, my male friends are also disgusted but it. It would be not fair to put everybody into the same box.

BTW, I didn't mention homosexuality and I appreciate Michelangelo’s talent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stlukesguild

I don’t separate the work of the artist from his life.
I can be moved by erotic poetry written by a young man……but Goethe was 64 when he fell in love with 18 years old woman and 74 when he proposed to 19 years old. It is disgusting.

The inability to separate the artist from the art work becomes problematic when the individual bases their judgments of the artist's achievements not upon the art but upon their judgments of the artist's personal life. I think many might question just what gives anyone the right to set themselves up as the judge of the personal lives of others. Goethe is "disgusting" because he still had erotic feelings at 64? I guess that means Peter Paul Rubens was a real pervert, after all he married a 16-year old that he was passionately in love with at age 53... and went on to have a slew of children with her. And what of all those homosexuals? Ewwww! How disgusting. I'll never look at a Michelangelo painting again.:rolleyes5:

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True . . . but still, condemning someone like Caravaggio for being a murderer isn't that much of a stretch . . . unless you've taken the stance of Alex and become a complete cultural relativist. :D Even taking Caravaggio into account, does him being a horrible person devalue his art? I don't think so. But can it effect how we look at it? I do think so.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ftil

It is not inability but a choice. It is a big difference. Yes, for me it is disgusting for 74 old man to have erotic thoughts about 19 years old. I am a female and we may differ in opinion. However, my male friends are also disgusted but it. It would be not fair to put everybody into the same box.

BTW, I didn't mention homosexuality and I appreciate Michelangelo’s talent.

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How can you be disgusted by an old man having erotic thoughts about a 19 year old? Or even a 15 year old? Or any female who has reached puberty and is developing in ways that man is biologically and genetically programmed to find arousing? I suspect your male friends are just agreeing with you so you don't unjustly label them as perverts, too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandis

How can you be disgusted by an old man having erotic thoughts about a 19 year old? Or even a 15 year old? Or any female who has reached puberty and is developing in ways that man is biologically and genetically programmed to find arousing? I suspect your male friends are just agreeing with you so you don't unjustly label them as perverts, too.

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Well, it is not just to have erotic thoughts. 74-year-old Goethe persuaded his friend, the Grand Duke Charles Augustus, to make a formal marriage proposal to 19-year-old Ulrich.

Where did I say perverts? Don’t distort my words. :yikes:

There are men who are locked in teenage mentality……..refusing to grow. :lol:

Yes, because associating the word pervert with calling someone disgusting for having erotic thoughts about a 19 year old is a real stretch.

I also find it ironic that you accuse others of being in a teenage mentality when you can't write two sentences before using an emoticon, a teenage behavior if there ever was one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandis

Yes, because associating the word pervert with calling someone disgusting for having erotic thoughts about a 19 year old is a real stretch.

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No, it is only your opinion and your interpretation of my words. I may say again I didn't’ use pervert. But if you want to distort my words and use as an argument…….I better go back to my reading. :p

Quote:

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I also find it ironic that you accuse others of being in a teenage mentality when you can't write two sentences before using an emoticon, a teenage behavior if there ever was one.

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LOL! You perhaps don’t need to express the intensity of your feelings. I do. Please don't assume that everybody is like you.


On a final note, images speak lauder than words.

77 year old Goethe, 3 years later after his marriage proposal 19-year-old Ulrich. :lol:



http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...jpg?uselang=pl

Lulius Sebbers, The portrait of Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, 1826



Enjoy Litnet,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ftil

No, it is only your opinion and your interpretation of my words. I may say again I didn't’ use pervert. But if you want to distort my words and use as an argument…….I better go back to my reading. :p





LOL! You perhaps don’t need to express the intensity of your feelings. I do. Please don't assume that everybody is like you.


On a final note, images speak lauder than words.

77 year old Goethe, 3 years later after his marriage proposal 19-year-old Ulrich. :lol:



http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...jpg?uselang=pl

Lulius Sebbers, The portrait of Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, 1826



Enjoy Litnet,

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"The intensity of my feelings"? Are you serious? The only reason one uses emoticons is because they're unsure of the clarity of their language, or, in your case, to distort the message.

Thanks for the picture, though. I didn't know what an old man looked like.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandis

"The intensity of my feelings"? Are you serious? The only reason one uses emoticons is because they're unsure of the clarity of their language, or, in your case, to distort the message.

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Wrong assumption…….Again. http://sanctumzone.co.uk/components/...s/facepalm.gif


http://www.pic4ever.com/images/290.gif

Nope.

Enjoy LitNet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ftil

There are men who are locked in teenage mentality……..refusing to grow. :lol:

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People like you are the reason rape jokes are funny. You take serious topics and treat them with such totalitarian moral and social stances that you render the topic ridiculous; and comedy and satire become the only logical way of protesting such absolutist views, for how can you use logic when your opponent does not acknowledged it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alexander III

People like you are the reason rape jokes are funny. You take serious topics and treat them with such totalitarian moral and social stances that you render the topic ridiculous; and comedy and satire become the only logical way of protesting such absolutist views, for how can you use logic when your opponent does not acknowledged it.

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I guess, you haven’t read what I wrote…....or you didn't understand.

It is a serious issue when some men refuse to grow up. You may find many research about that subject. Perhaps, you would want to hide it. I don't especially when such behaviour lead to exploitation of women and children.

take serious topics and treat them with such totalitarian moral and social stances........I am afraid that you use words you don’t fully understand.:lol:


Immaturity is the incapacity to use one's intelligence without the guidance of another.
Immanuel Kant

She's a lost cause, Alex.

~

This thread is now closed due to... Well, I think it is rather obvious why.

Those who find themselves unable to show respect towards those who do not share their own views might like to consider not taking part in public debates.

~

StLukes> Please feel free to start another thread on this topic.