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Originally Posted by
Virgil
Lawrence uses those fertility symbols very frequently. He may have been young here so he may not have read Frazier's The Golden Bough yet, but he did at some point in life and used symbols from there many times.
Antiquarian, I think I read that Lawrence did read that book; I will check references and see if that is true. That is interesting.
I just read all your posts or most of them; what happened when I was writing my long response to the text? So many more posts again. I don't know if I can answer them all. Anyway, you asked for my comments on the post text up until the train, so here it is.
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He suffered too. After hesitating for a second in the doorway, she came forward, shook hands without speaking, only looking at him with rather frightened blue eyes.
This part stood out to me making it clear they both suffered at this initial meeting. Winifred look at him with frightened blue eyes.
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She was of medium height, sturdy in build. Her face was white and impassive, without the least trace of a smile.
I wasn’t sure what to make of that expression; was it due to the shock of seeing Coutts or was this her normal demeanor? She sounds like she might be somewhat on the ‘cool’ side, passive and reserved.
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She was a blonde of twenty-eight, dressed in a white gown just short enough not to touch the ground. Her throat was solid and strong, her arms heavy and white and beautiful, her blue eyes heavy with unacknowledged passion.
As the paragraph goes on we get a good mental picuture of her - blonde, 28, lovely white gown, beautiful arms though heavy and white, solid and strong throat…..most notably to me was this last phrase “with blue eyes heavy with unacknowledged passion.”
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When she had turned away from Coutts, she flushed vividly. He could see the pink in her arms and throat, and he flushed in answer.
"That blush would hurt her," he said to himself, wincing.
Did this ‘blush’ also hurt him, at the same tim,e since he is’ wincing’; or does he feel guilt in that wince, for coming here tonight and seeing her again?
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"I did not expect to see you," she said, with a reedy timbre of voice, as if her throat were half-closed. It made his nerves tingle.
"No--nor I you. At least . . ." He ended indefinitely.
It seemed that this “reedy timbre of voice” makes his nerves tingle. I think later it mentions the voice when they are walking in the night and I believe it says they put his nerve on edge. Here is the later statement: “Her note had that intense reedy quality which set the man on edge;……..” When we get to that part it has more to the statement that may explain why this is so to Coutts.
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"You have come down from Yorkshire?" she asked. Apparently she was cold and self-possessed. Yorkshire meant the Rectory where his fiancée lived; he felt the sting of sarcasm.
"No," he answered. "I am on my way there."
There was a moment's pause. Unable to resolve the situation,
she turned abruptly to her hostess.
So Winifred assumed automatically that he is on his way from the Rectory in Yorkshire and had gone there first and then came her to visit after. Also, note the one clue now that indeed Coutts fiancée lives in a Rectory and therefore must be a very protected young woman. It seems in mentioning this there is a “sting of sarcasm” – it that due to her disapproval of his engagement to a girl of this distinction and moral background? It seems, too, that now clearcut communication takes place to resolve this uncomforatable situation, so Wini turns to ask if they should play now.
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"Shall we play, then?"
They adjourned to the drawing-room. It was a large room upholstered in dull yellow. The chimney-piece took Coutts' attention. He knew it perfectly well, but this evening it had a new, lustrous fascination. Over the mellow marble of the mantel rose an immense mirror, very translucent and deep, like deep grey water. Before this mirror, shining white as moons on a soft grey sky, was a pair of statues in alabaster, two feet high. Both were nude figures. They glistened under the side lamps, rose clean and distinct from their pedestals.
Someone already pointed out the new, lustrous fascination he is feeling about the chimney-piece. All else up until now seemed totally unchanged to him but now it seems to be even more alluring and wondrous. I don’t know if the dull yellow of the upholstered room has any significance. So, it seems the mirror is a new addition to the mantel. Here is it described as “very translucent and deep, like deep gray water”…it did make me think of a lake or ‘Lady of the Lake's image….or ‘The Lady of Shallot’ which is later mentioned in the story. It seems that the mirror is a symbol of 'mystery' here, because it is ‘dark and translucent and deep’. Then in contrast to this mysterious mirror are the statues, that reflect into the dark mirror as white moons. These seem to mimic the very walk in the darkness the two will shortly take, and although the moon is no longer seen, Winifred in her white dress, would take the place of the moon and it’s mysteries, and allure. Somewhere, also I would think in Coutts inner recesses of his brain, he would connect these images – call it subconsciously. He would connect Winifred to the white alabaster statues, the nude figures glistening under the night lamps and in the mystery of the night – luminous, radiating like that evening star he first saw.
Could the two statues also represent the changing nature of Winifred? She seems almost to have split purposes and is variable at times...she tosses Coutts about emotionally, like the trains he mentioned earlier, how they jolt one this way and that.
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The Venus leaned slightly forward, as if anticipating someone's coming. Her attitude of suspense made the young man stiffen. He could see the clean suavity of her shoulders and waist reflected white on the deep mirror. She shone, catching, as she leaned forward, the glow of the lamp on her lustrous marble loins.
A lot of sensual and sexual tension. I think that Dark Muse said as much in or in a similar way. A lot of ‘suspense’ in this part of the evening. Also, like the statues Winifred herself is “reflected white on the deep mirror”, as later she will be against the dark night; there she will shine, too. Lawrence really has a thing about ‘loins’ and saw them as a very sexual/sensual part of a woman and of a man. Also, how blatant can one be in this paragraph saying she leaned like the Venus as “if anticipating someone’s coming” (her lover?); also him stiffening, although I feel that is more sexual tension than literal.
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..Coutts listened to the music. Unable to criticize, he listened till he was intoxicated. Winifred, as she played, swayed slightly.
I did not quite understand about the “unable to criticize” phrase…does this mean he normally would have or that he found nothing to criticize?
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He watched the strong forward thrust of her neck, the powerful and angry striking of her arm. He could see the outline of her figure; she wore no corsets; and he found her of resolute independent build. Again he glanced at the Venus bending in suspense. Winifred was blonde with a solid whiteness, an isolated woman.
She plays sensually and with a lot of sexual power and suspense. How could any man resist at this point? At least being fascinated with her and her power? He obviously notice her figure with the fact observed that she wore no corset; also those days that would indicate a more modern type woman and maybe less sexually restrained. The last statement now indicates that he is consciously connecting her with the Venus figure on the mantelpiece. Also, interesting to note, maybe that the chimney/fire is connected to Winifred as well, even this early in the story. Also the ending line of that paragraph about Winifred - "an isolated woman" - interesting and may go along with what Antiquarian just said about Winifred and marriage.
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…."We can go by car together to West Croydon," said the German lady, gleefully, as if she were a child. She was a frail, excitable little woman of forty, naïve and innocent. She gazed with bright brown eyes of admiration on Coutts.
"Yes, I am glad," he answered.
So after the German woman suggests this and this would be safer with 3 people and not Coutts being left all alone with Winifred he says he is glad. He seems to be sincere at this point about that statement. The woman seems to like Coutts and looks at him with admiration. She is however described as “forty, naïve and innocent.”
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…… Coutts waited for Winifred. The conductor called:
"Come along, please, if you're going."
"No," said Winifred. "I prefer to walk this stage."
"We can walk from West Croydon," said Coutts.
The conductor rang the bell.
"Aren't you coming?" cried the frail, excitable little lady, from the footboard. "Aren't you coming?--Oh!"
"I walk from West Croydon every day; I prefer to walk here, in the quiet," said Winifred.
"Aw! aren't you coming with me?" cried the little lady, quite frightened. She stepped back, in supplication, towards the footboard. The conductor impatiently buzzed the bell. The car started forward, Miss Syfurt staggered, was caught by the conductor.
"Aw!" she cried, holding her hand out to the two who stood on the road, and breaking almost into tears of disappointment. As the tram darted forward she clutched at her hat. In a moment she was out of sight.
Coutts stood wounded to the quick by this pain given to the frail, child-like lady.
So suddenly, Winifred changes her mind and balks at going along on the train as a threesome. Wasn’t this planned out back at the house and she seemed in agreement on the plan? I can see why Coutts would be very annoyed at Winifred and her stubbornness, and feel “wounded to the quick by this pain given to the frail, child-like lady.”
One thing confuses me here and this is the prominity to Winifred’s house to West Croyden and to this location where they are leaving the train. Wouldn’t Coutts accompany her from either locales? Why is it so key that this is the longer walk? Is it also more remote and isolated, giving her more time to lure him, cast the spell of desire upon him?
And Virgil, woman can be so bewitching....;) :lol:
Aren't most men...
babbling idiots in front of a beautiful alluring woman? :lol: just kidding really...showing my hidden hostility to men now...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Virgil
Oh you're right. I went back and ooked and she calls him "pater." But he does seem to be under her spell.
The old man is her pater or father. So, Virgil, you went back and 'ooked'....:lol:
