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I knew about the author's religious affiliations. It was used as an explanation for why everything was so nicey nicey in the first books (which as we've already discussed, was nice- the whole sensual but not sexual thing). But then Breaking Dawn comes along and BAM. So I don't know if the author's religion can really be used as an explanation for anything (explanation is not the word I want to use, but I can't think of anything better).Quote:
Originally Posted by Joreads
Excuse might be a better one. (and by the way I don't mean to offend people with those beliefs, it's just relevant).
The books are pretty much Meyer's dreams, so I guess she has weird dreams...
Really? That I didn't knowQuote:
Originally Posted by kelby_lake
I know the first one is actually from a dream, the rest pretty much read like a woman of her age's fantasy.
No offence taken in this thread Kelby - love your comments they make me think abut things I hadn't beforeQuote:
Originally Posted by kelby_lake
Yeah, there's no offense taken on my end either.
Jo, did you say she was doing more novels other than Midnight Sun, or did I make that up?
I love vampire books, but i'm a little sick of them all being vampire romance... ugh... i haven't read a decent vampire story in ages... i liked the concept of twighlight, but i hate the way she has written it. I'm sure many others immensly enjoyed it, 'for some to love it, others must loath it', and the whole shiny vampire in the sun thing... *shakes head in disgust*, well, wondering if anyone can point me to some better written vampire books...
No more books :bawling: I would love one on Jasper thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by *Classic*Charm*
So here's my next question:
If vampires have no blood...
and no bodily fluids...
How did this all happen?
please tell me this does not require clarification
I know surely one of them would have noticed the exchange of fluids!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by *Classic*Charm*
even before that...
I actually asked my housemate about it- the one with the fetish- and she said that opinions on this vary from book to book. Some say that once a vampire falls in love he starts "living" again, heart beating and whatnot. I think it's just a convenient excuse for the vampire to be able to get laid. Silly vampire romance novels, she reads! :lol:
Oh sorry - I really don't have a one track mind. I will have to think about that one:DQuote:
Originally Posted by *Classic*Charm*
Alrighty, you ponder that one and get back to me:D
Ok I am baack and in control of myself Charm so here I go.
It is standard lore in the vampire cannon that vampire usualy mate for "life" - hence Victorias reaction in Twilight when they kill James. So all I can guess is that love is an emotion and a such is not connected to the silent heart of the vampire but to the mind -I would have said soul but then we have a whole other fight on our hands do they or do they not have a soul.
I think that Bella is Edwards "soul" mate and that is why she smells so good to him and that is why it is so rare for a vampire to have that reaction to a human. Sort of a love at first smell rather than sight if you will. Jasper alreaady has Alice and Emment killed the woman that smelt so good to him and now he has Rose. Carilse has Esme so no problem there.
Vampires and the act of drinking blood have always been expressed as being a sensual act - even Edward says that sex is second to drinking human blood I persoanlly think that they are linked and that vampires get off on feeding.
It was only Edwards control that let him move past wanting to feed on Bella and thus allowing the love for her to take over. By the end of New Moon is tells her that he is over the thirst for her blood that thinking she was dead cured him. In Eclipse she falls and cuts her hand and he patches her up. I think that vampires do retain their sould I just think that it is very well buried and in some cases as the Cullens do they manage to set a little piece of itfree. That is how I think Edward is able to fall in love with Bella.
I hope that makes sense Charm hit me on the head if it doesn't. It is late Friday night here and I have had a hell of a day.
I still can not explain the baby though we still have the problem of the bodily fluid - I think she fell pregnant the first time they made love and remember it was the first time for both of them!!! Maybe that 100 years of waiting paid off for Edward - told you it was late.
AHA!! Now we have it! All the fluids he stored up before he became a vampire. I think that's our only explanation...though, even still...
I'm a student of science, my brain is just not allowing me to grasp the concept of impregnating without blood or fluids...I'm trying, but I just don't get it!
I suppose I'll have to take me roommate's advise:
"They're vampires! Just bend your mind!"
Apparently I'm not very flexible. :sick:
Don't forget his boys were on ice - I don't know either.Quote:
Originally Posted by *Classic*Charm*
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Joreads
Actually laughing out loud right now
I did have to think about that for a second though!:blush::blush:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Totally love that....Quote:
Originally Posted by Joreads
Welcome to the Twilight nonsense discussion, Equal! Feel free to throw in your two cents (or whatever your smallest denomination of currency might be)!
Are you a fan?
Same here. I can't see why he didn't just agree to be a godfather to her or something.
I agree with Kelby on this. It could have been handled so many way and each of them would have been better
I know it has been a while since this thread had been posted to but I thought that I would share this with you all. Monday night we had our first book club meeting for 2009 and the book being discussed well no prizes for guessing – it was Twilight. There were 11 women at the meeting, there are usually 10 but we had a guest at this meeting a huge fan of Twilight.
Of the 11 of us at the meeting 7 loved the book and in fact the whole series (some of them were still reading it) 3 did not like Twilight and have no intention of reading the rest of the novels, 1 was neither loved or hated it. We range in ages from 33 to 79 and I have to say the 33 year old disliked the books the most. This was one of the liveliest discussions that we have ever had and in fact it went for three hours and I had to end up kicking them out of my house at 11pm – some of us have to be up early. We are planning on getting together as a group to discuss the entire series once everyone that wants to has read them all. So these are some of the comments that were made by the group. I should point out that we only discussed Twilight as some of the group had not finished reading the other novels.
Addiction: - there is a strong theme of addiction and denying that addiction throughout the novel. Firstly the vampires addiction to blood and their resistance of that addiction. We are also given a brief look at Jaspers struggle with addiction. Edward actually says that Bella is his own personal brand of heroin and it takes every ounce of self control that he has not to act on that addiction. Secondly Bella and Edwards addiction to each other and it is in fact this addiction that keeps Bella alive even when Edward is forced to drink her blood to save her he is able to stop himself from killing her because he is in love with her.
Bella as a role model: - While one or two people in the group thought Bella is a weak character most of us actual thought she was one of the strongest emotionally in the book. At the age of 17 she packs up her belongings leaves her beloved mother to live with a father is barely knows in a place she does not want to. She accepts Edward flaws and all and knowing that he could kill her. She walks into a house full of vampires and lastly she walks into that ballet studio to face James on her own.
There was one issue raised about Bella that I had not thought of and that is the fact that she does not eat when stressed or around Edward she only drinks. I totally missed this even though I had read the novel several times. Most agreed that was a negative aspect to the character.
Esme was also a large talking point in our discussion and the fact that some of the group thought that she was actually a better “mother” than Renee. In fact some of the group actually thought that the strongest family unit in the whole books was in fact the Cullen’s.
These are just a few of the themes and talking points that we covered in our discussion, I will add more if this stimulates the conversation again. So I guess it goes to show you that a book that has been dismissed by some people, who haven’t even bothered to read it, as trash might actually have something to offer after all. We all acknowledge that these books are not great literary works they never claimed to be but that does not mean that they have no social value.
I don't know that I would consider Bella a role model, and not even because of her terrible eating habits. If you put aside the whole "perfect romance" thing, I'd be pretty upset if my daughter (theoretically, of course) idolized a girl who fell for a guy and completely ditched all her friends and everything to be obsessed with him. This kind of romance is fictional, and I would not want girls to have a role model based around something like this.
But of course, who wouldn't want to be in Bella's place?
Me, not with Eddie and his special spermy venom. HE'S OLD!
hahahahahahahahahaQuote:
Originally Posted by kelby_lake
So what is it that has made these books so popular?
Maybe some or all of these points have been made since I was last on here, but in response to your question joreads, here are a few of my thoughts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joreads
Perhaps the idea that, these books present something of an 'ideal' both hero and love which, in many ways, reflects those represented in fairy tales of our childhood - the coda being that 'love conquers all' - is what engages readers. These timeless roles and ideals resonate, on some level with guys and girls, no matter how non-PC they are or how 'healthy' they are. Whilst reality for most, if not all, of us has fallen short of this ideal, books like Twilight in some ways kind of keep the dream alive, so to speak. This can be a good thing, or a bad thing...I have a friend who has been single for a very long time who cannot tear herself away from these books or the movie (a travesty in itself - the movie, i mean - in my opinion). It's like she's stuck...she can't move past this story.
Another interesting and (I think) significant aspect of the story many readers may relate to is that of salvation...Edward is always stepping in and 'saving' Bella from all harm, including that which he himself could potentially inflict. Whether they admit it or not, many women (and men too, i guess) want to be saved, even if it is just from themselves! To read about a man, albeit a vampire, so willing to put himself out (ie overcome his natural instincts) for the one he loves, is highly intoxicating, particularly to those who have never experienced any real kind of devotion or sacrifice (I have another friend who seems to pick guys with 'issues' to see if they will change FOR her...a very selfish/conceited form of 'salvation'). Mind you, even those who have known intense love can still get lost in this portrayal of it...
Bella, in turn, saves Edward from continued loneliness and alienation from his family, through allowing him to participate in a relationship of unconditional love and acceptance with her, just as the rest of the Cullens do. However, in saying that, his tendency to loathe who he is definitely surfaces throughout the text as a result of their relationship. But then, don't relationships bring out both the best and the worst in us at times...Bella is bringing out his 'humanity' and reminding us that even the most seemingly perfect among us will have faults.
Also, through his determination to abstain from what his nature almost demands of him, he may feel he is earning his salvation in a spiritual sense, which is hinted at in the text and is how many people believe 'good' lives must be lived. A desire to see him successful in his efforts to be 'redeemed' may also motivate readers.
The popularity of these books rests on their ability to explore issues that are relevant to the readers and that are timeless. Remove the fantasy elements and those relationship truths still exist and still demand our attention, both in make believe and in reality.
Remove the vampire part and you have a fairly boring conventional romance, the sort of thing we'd be writing 2 centuries ago.
It's like Mills and Boon.
in general, vampires are NOT my thing...being fairly new to the whole fantasy genre, perhaps that is why I really enjoyed the books, having nothing to compare them too. However, as new to it as I may be, I can see that, as you say, without the fantasy element, the story itself would be a rather bland narrative, despite the issues it raises. combined though, the text (while not without its faults) is very readable. While i've not read any mills and boon and therefore cannot really comment on that, I must confess that i do LOVE my conventional romances from centuries ago...a romantic through and through!!Quote:
Originally Posted by kelby_lake
I thought it was neat and interesting how Meyer decided to take commonly accepted vampire 'canon' (i'll use that since it was used for werewolves in this thread lol) and pushed that aside and made her own, explaining the other things as myths made by people.
I really liked the series, and I think it would be the only series I would think of re-reading. But the ending for Breaking Dawn was so wrong in my opinion. It would have been so much better if the Cullens and the rest of the vampires ended up fighting and killing the Volturi. I couldn't believe Meyer just ended it with them walking away. It made no sense.
I thought the Twilight series was absolutely amazing. They were all well written and had amazing imagery. I also agree with Tyler Self about the ending of Breaking Dawn. All this talk of a huge fight and then as the Cullens hoped there was none which was disappointing for me.
That would have been good had she actually made some beneficial changes. She turned them all into bloody fairies! It's like saying 'I think the recipe of bread is too cliche. I know! I'll throw in eggs, chicken, milk, and dog intestines! Isn't that a more interesting recipe for bread!'Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Self
Yes but if Edward and the vampire world in Twilight were a food they'd be a lot more yummy than that.
I agree, I think the thing with Jacob imprinting was just weird and Jacob annoys me at certain parts in Breaking Dawn! I still love the books though and I couldnt help wondering if because Jacob has imprinted on Renesmee that he will choose to live forever so will he have to move continuosly like the Cullens to avoid being under suspicion??
What did people think of the film in comparison to the book? I liked it but it was no where near as good as the film.
I love the series! I must confess I thought it would be one of those silly fantastical series, but after reading a bit of the book during my holidays, I got so hooked on it that I went and got all the books!!
The characters were vivid and personalised - you could imagine them. It wasn't scary... it wasn't mushy romance. There was a perfect balance of the ordinary and extraordinary - just enough to keep one addicted but not too much to cause one to 'overthrow' the whole series as a stupid fantasy book - a notion that somewhat comes with the idea of a 'vampire'. :)
I highly recommend it for those looking for a good, entertaining read! I even learnt new words during this read.... something highly original for me....
I would've enjoyed it more if it was MUCH shorter. As it is, the series is the epitome of vacuousness.
I must say I completely agree with everything LimaJean has said. I think the story was a good idea, although I liked the movie's structure better. The writing on the other hand was like reading a 13 year old's diary. And really diaries aren't written to be read the way you would novels. My English is terrible, it's not my first language, and I don't claim to be a classic buff and therefore knowledgable on "good" books (I read what looks good to me), but even for me this was a stretch.
I bought The Host and have only read a few pages, but it seems to be an improvement so far...here's hoping.
Maybe this is because I'm 24?
Twilight is bad and the fanbase is even worse.
Do you have some sort of a problem with the Diary of Anne Frank? :PQuote:
Originally Posted by TurquoiseSunset
i wonder if anyone besides me has realized the Twilight movie crap is going too far?!
^ I think the whole "Twilight Craze" went too far when it became the "Twilight Craze".
It's basically the Hannah Montana of literature. Do depth, no value, very stereotyped, cliche, unoriginal, but........it's good mindless fun. In today's entertainment, that's really all that's required to be popular.
While I wish that other more well-written book series could get as much attention as Twilight gets, all I can do is just recommend them to people who ask.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beautifull
hmm, I read the books (what I thought of them is another matter), and I have to say I thought Robert Pattinson played Edward to perfection. I'm usually ultra critical on actor's portrayals of characters, but I thought Pattinson was perfect.
As for the book itself....mostly, it was a good idea. I...didn't exactly enjoy them, but I didn't hate reading them. However, I'll never pick them up again. I have a major personal ick over the whole idea of vampires not going out in the sun because they're too sparkley and pretty, though...honestly. Best way I'd describe it, is as literary candyfloss; no nutritional value, but most people enjoy it once in a while.