We will probably not read it again.
Or, if we will, then not in the following three years.
It was OK, but not much more.
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We will probably not read it again.
Or, if we will, then not in the following three years.
It was OK, but not much more.
The book was ackward and a bit boring and SHE KILLED OFF ONE OF THE TWINS! she should be prosecuted!
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u...thingimade.jpg
Am I the only one that stopped reading this book half way through and desired never to look at it again?
It's exactly what happened to me with The Dark Tower. I got to the 7th book, read half way through, and could no longer continue.
I think there's something about the number 7 ;)
as with many things that i like (return of the jedi, return ofthe king, matrix revolution, etc.), i just love endings, especially if they are well done.
i think the epilogue is meant to say they all grew up and harry found peace through ron's family.
there's 1 detail that's slightly disturbing. was harry's kids snogging with ron's kids... cause harry+ron are now related by blood through ginny... ewww >).
anyways, it was pretty fantastic ending and i really dig it, especially the christ-like ending.
That was Harry's adopted son, Teddy (Teddy Lupin, the son of Remus and Tonks) snogging Victoire, Bill and Fleur's kid. Nothing disturbing about it.Quote:
there's 1 detail that's slightly disturbing. was harry's kids snogging with ron's kids... cause harry+ron are now related by blood through ginny... ewww >).
anyways, it was pretty fantastic ending and i really dig it, especially the christ-like ending.[/QUOTE]
I just want to say that i loved the book and am already onto my second time reading it! But i dont get the "christ-like ending" reference??
Nope. This last book was so bad it made me cringe. Wish I could throw it out my window like i did with that accursed Great Expectations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dublo7
:thumbs_upQuote:
Originally Posted by Bakiryu
judeo christian notion of jesus christ sacrificing himself in order to save the world. just like harry did.
specifically, the garden of Gethsemane:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_of_Gethsemane
parallels harry's acceptance of his own death to save the world, etc. as he was walking in the forrest towards Voldermort :)
I just want to say that i loved the book and am already onto my second time reading it! But i dont get the "christ-like ending" reference??[/QUOTE]Quote:
Originally Posted by Chem
I liked it. Everything was quite fine, well, except the epilogue! All was well annoyed me a bit. And I had not the slightest idea that my previous lit-net signature (and the first one, this one now is the second one) if someone remembers would be something I would come across again in HP series, and not once or twice, even more times! :p
This was it:
Wit Beyond Measure Is Man's Greatest Treasure! :)
i think the epilogue was put there to illustrate that the children have grown up into adults... just as the children who read HP will one day re-read HP to their kids and realize that the very last epilogue was written just for them! =P. it's a very nifty idea.
I have now read the final installment in the Harry Potter Series - The Deathly Hallows. The morally ambiguous character Severus Snape turned out to be a hero after all. Love - the Power of Unrequited Love - seems to redeem him.
What say you?
Is Severus Snape a Hero?
Did his love redeem him?
I wouldn't say he was a hero, more like he was morally ambiguous. If he'd had the power to turn Lily's love away from James, and that power was evil, he'd have used it.
I don't think love redeemed him either. Love made him bitter, and angry. Love was both the cause and the cure of his problems.
Of course none of it was real, or was it?.....
Don't know about redeeming, but it did give his life a purpose - to save Harry and to work as Dumbledore's agent. Poor Snape, I felt pity on him as well. But don't know why can't bring myself to call him Severus yet! Yeah, can't bring myself to get on first name basis with Professor Snape!Quote:
Love - the Power of Unrequited Love - seems to redeem him.
I told ya (in a thread I don't remember), love is not always about being on the receiving end. :)
I'm not sure he's really a hero either. He has heroic moments, but that's mixed in with a lot of unpleasantness.
And as for the love thing, I'm not so sure. Does that make him less of a hero, because he wasn't doing good for the sake of good - it seemed a bit like an attempt to bring Lily back almost, as if he could undo the past by helping Harry.
But he been to the Dark Side and Choose Good because of LOVE? None of the other characters done that - even Dumbledore! Dumbledore was tempted that is all.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFifthElement
No. Not many would invite him to dinner in the evening. But the anger, the bitterness, the terrible sadness about him makes him a unique character - a character that strides both the dark and the good?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pensive
He is more of an Anti Hero than hero - but there is something unique about him?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lioness_Heart
No. But he choose good for LOVE - isn't that something?Quote:
And as for the love thing, I'm not so sure. Does that make him less of a hero, because he wasn't doing good for the sake of good - it seemed a bit like an attempt to bring Lily back almost, as if he could undo the past by helping Harry.
I think Lily should have chosen him instead of James I hates James!
But would he have learnt the true lesson of love if he did?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakiryu
Now but he would've been happy anyway. Love doesn't have a lesson.
It does. It teaches you about loss...and regrets...and pain...and sadness...and sorrow...and of fulfilment...of hope...of joy...of meaning...Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakiryu
Those things can be learned over time. People shouldn't suffer for the sake of love.
If it does not hurt - it ain't love...Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakiryu
Well, it could be said that he chose Good when he had nothing left to lose, because his love was gone. So he only became Good (ambiguously so) when he was a broken man, often as people choose the dark path in life when they feel they have nothing left. Was choosing the path of goodness an act of self-destruction for Snape?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lote-Tree
He put his life in danger did he not?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFifthElement
He did not have to do this does he?
So why did he choose the good then for Lily?Quote:
So he only became Good (ambiguously so) when he was a broken man, often as people choose the dark path in life when they feel they have nothing left.
No. Act of redemption?Quote:
Was choosing the path of goodness an act of self-destruction for Snape?
No, but when you've nothing left to live for then you can be reckless with your life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lote-Tree
Or because he couldn't remain with Voldemort when he threatened the only thing he'd ever loved. If he loved Lily so much, and her love could save him, why didn't he choose the path of good when she was alive, when he knew it was so important to her. Instead he let her die. He could have done more.Quote:
So why did he choose the good then for Lily?
Or an act of revenge? Against the person who took away his love.Quote:
No. Act of redemption?
Of course ultimately it's because JKR said it is so. Oh the power of a writer, almost like playing God.
So true, so true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lote-Tree
Perhaps. But there is element of self-preservation even when you have nothing to live for. And he never tried to commit suicide. He wanted to live.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFifthElement
Here he shows how human he is. So often we hurt those that we love the most - either through our actions or inactions or misunderstanding...Quote:
If he loved Lily so much, and her love could save him, why didn't he choose the path of good when she was alive, when he knew it was so important to her.
But he never tried to kill Voldermort. He could have died trying.Quote:
Or an act of revenge? Against the person who took away his love.
The redemption is this: His been to the dark side. And only love brought him back to the good side.Quote:
Of course ultimately it's because JKR said it is so. Oh the power of a writer, almost like playing God.
Snape embodies what most human tend to be - a mixture of good and bad. Some only act on the good - we call them Saint's and others tempted by the bad - we call them villains. But most straddle between the moral ambiguity between the two.
True, JKR has captured this well as the books have gone on, and perhaps reflected what is the core problem for most teenagers, the discovery that adults don't have all the answers, and sometimes they aren't as wholely good as we'd been led to believe. Snape was darker than most of the characters, so it was more pronounced in his case, but all the main characters were straddling the void between 'good' and 'evil', including Harry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lote-Tree
I'm still not convinced that it was love that redeemed Snape, if he hadn't loved Lily his life may well have been much more simple (and perhaps boring ;) )
But Snape DID choose the path of good while Lily was still alive. He told Voldemort about the prophecy before he knew it would lead to Lily's death. As soon as he found out that Voldemort was going to attack the Potters, he told Dumbledore all about it in hope of saving Lily. It wasn't Snape's fault that the plan didn't work, it backfired because Peter Pettigrew betrayed Lily and James.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFifthElement
I whole-heartedly agree over here! I think he did all he could do and for the best interests of Lily.Quote:
Originally Posted by Annamariah
Exactly!Quote:
Originally Posted by Annamariah
What is redemption but to take responsiblity for your mistakes?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFifthElement
And Snape did that with his life?
Did he choose the path of 'Good', or did he choose to place his love for Lily above his fear of Voldemort, and it just so happened that the way to achieve that was to betray Voldemort, secretly? The path of good was expedient, rather than a conscious choice. Would he have stood by and allowed James and Harry to be killed, if Lily's safety was guaranteed, or in fact if Voldemort could have delivered Lily to him on a platter? How many other people did he not care about, didn't try to protect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Annamariah
His choice was selfish, not motivated by the desire to be 'good', or do the right thing.
Thinking the best for someone you love is a good thing. And if that is selfish, then most of our choices are selfish. Perhaps all are.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFifthElement
It's a perceptive point you make Pensieve, and I fall into my own paradox here because I truly do believe that everything we do, we do for selfish reasons. That being said my point was not so much that Snape was thinking the best for Lily, but rather that he was thinking about what was best for himself, and therein his actions were selfish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pensive
This point made me think. If someone does something out of love, does that always make it good?Quote:
Thinking the best for someone you love is a good thing.
Yeah, the whole selfishness thing is quite complex itself. Don't we all think the best for ourselves? Even when we choose to sacrifice something belonging to us, don't we do it to soothe ourselves? Don't we make this choice for a happy conscience? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFifthElement
Nope, it doesn't but sticking to your love (especially if this sticking wouldn't be a source of hurt generally) or thinking the best for your loved one I think is quite good. Snape did that. If this makes him selfish, then we all are selfish. :pQuote:
This point made me think. If someone does something out of love, does that always make it good?
How so? How is protecting Harry best for him?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFifthElement
Who said anything about Harry?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lote-Tree
You said Snape acted on selfish reason's but how is protecting Harry a Selfish reason?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFifthElement
Snape acted on selfish reasons in turning from Voldemort to the 'path of good' because what prompted the move was the threat to Lily. Once on the path of good it would take some intervening act to turn him back to the dark side (oops, wrong reference!) which never occurred. Perhaps what held him there was his commitment to Dumbledore, considering he never showed any affection for Harry, merely despised him because of his resemblance to his Dad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lote-Tree
Why do you think Snape stayed on the path of good?
Because he loved Lily and felt he was responsible for her death: Remorse.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFifthElement