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Done a bit of reading of Plato's Symposium, and came across some reference to beauty.
Plato argues that in order to preliminarily learn about beauty, is by observing and wanting beautiful people and objects. However he also argues that our desire for beauty can be altered until the time we can really appreciate and love beauty itself, whereas he concludes that this beauty is the highest love there ever will be.
The beauty means the beauty of soul,,
Beauty governs over a very broad range of aspects, and a soul being beautiful is only one of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by novlist*star*
What do you mean by soul?
Soul by human's spiritual beings, these beings that are immortal and will carry on living afterlife. Soul which is regarded beautiful based on its purity and goodness.Quote:
Originally Posted by atiguhya padma
Quote:
Originally Posted by skasian
I'm still none the wiser. Can I see, hear, feel, smell or taste the soul? Is there something concrete about it? Is there any indisputable common ground that we can all agree on about the soul?
I believe that beauty is based on cultural and individual schemas that are shaped by assimilation, accommodation and prejudice.
We are always aware of the original beauty schema, prototype, form which is acknowledged in common statements like: "their attractive, but I wouldn't call them beautiful".
Someone we find beautiful today may no longer appeal to us tomorrow and vice versa.
Zhuangzi: "Men claim that Mao-ch’iang and Lady Li were beautiful, but if fish saw them they would dive to the bottom of the stream, if birds saw them they would fly away, and if deer saw them they would break into a run."
The eyes are only one medium from which the brain collects information. How does the heart perceive? Both "hauntingly" and "Ie" imply the importance of memory on the idea of beauty which I agree with.Quote:
Originally Posted by skasian
Whether beauty itself is a single ruler by which all can be measured is beyond me, but it seem to me that the standard of beauty is different for each subject: visual art, music, literature, humans, nature, animals etc.
Beauty seems to be dominated by the feminine, at least physical beauty. I have only heard of the beauty of a man in response to his actions (a man stays by the side of his wife who is in a coma: "O, what a beautiful man".
Quote:
Originally Posted by skasian
I'm not even convinced about its existence.Quote:
Originally Posted by atiguhya padma
Like I said earlier, I think beauty has been understood for a very long time. Despite its many different forms.
Yes, you just provided something we can agree about the soul, and Plato's Phaedo can justify - that the soul is immaterial, invisible and immortal, something that cannot be perceived by our physical senses, therefore something that cannot be defined completely in our physical world.Quote:
Originally Posted by atiguhya padma
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickAdams
"How does the heart perceive? Both "hauntingly" and "Ie" imply the importance of memory on the idea of beauty which I agree with. "
The memory and thought of a specific thing that represents beauty becomes a stimuli for our hearts. It depends what our heart feels about that specific memory.
"Beauty seems to be dominated by the feminine, at lest physical beauty. I have only heard of the beauty of a man is response to his actions (a man stays by the side of his wife who is in a coma: "O, what a beautiful man"."
Beauty dominated by feminism? I have to disagree. A beautiful fountain pen may be highly praised yet it does not possess any feminine features. We sense beauty out of non human objects out of its quality such as uniqueness, high quality, not because it takes the form of feminism.
I can not agree with ol' Play-Dough on this. If it can not be sensed, how did he, or Socrates, discover it?Quote:
Originally Posted by skasian
Any reaction our heart has to emotional stimuli is really a reaction of the brain. The heart has been used as a metaphor, but I think this restrains us from truly defining emotional qualities.Quote:
Originally Posted by skasian
The feminine, nor feminism, but you're are right in that I should be more specific. Beauty is rarely used to define the human male unless it pertains to qualities of character.Quote:
Originally Posted by skasian
that's bc for the most part we're fantastically unattractive. i don't know what women see in us, but i'm glad they see whatever it isQuote:
Originally Posted by NickAdams
Skasian,
How would you differentiate between a real soul and a fake soul? a virtual soul designed so that it cannot be detected by any of our five senses? I'm intrigued. I have always used the senses to determine a thing's existence. If you think something can exist outside the realm of the senses, and that we can intelligibly discuss its existence, I'd like to know how you determine its existence as genuine rather than fake.
Let me discuss with you about radio waves and such electromagnetic waves that seems invisible, immaterial and even maybe immortal. Assuming there was no technology and science, we wouldnt be able to know that they exists with us everyday. The cause: we cant sense them with our five senses. Its a dangerous thing to trust in the naked five, it is just not adequate to sense what exists and what doesnt.Quote:
Originally Posted by atiguhya padma
A person who knows well about nitrogen stores in a glass funnel and show people that inside is the most abundant element in earth. This person can be laughed at and thrown eggs for telling such idiotic lies. The idea is that solemly trusting in our five senses esp in our eyes, we get mislead far too easily.
Magicians, masters of illusions to trick the naked eye of people, implements this very idea. What we see, is not always the truth.
What about a person confessing their love to you. We cant feel love itself by our five senses, yet we get compelled to believe that it does exist in the bottom of our hearts.
I have to ask you how can there be a fake soul if there is a real soul. To follow this logic, its like saying there can be a fake human and a real one, something that is very incorrect.
If something exists, it exists alright, theres no fakeness about it.
You cant "discover" the soul, as it cannot be proved by scientific equations as it cannot be understood completely.Quote:
Originally Posted by NickAdams
Now philosophy deals some aspects about the soul, and from what I know about it, it is not the study of unveiling the truth unlike science, but rather provides with insights into contrasting views and perspectives about an idea of various philosophers. A respected philosopher is born out of their originial argument that successfully convinces others to agree and perceive the same.
Reading Pluto's Phaedo, using Socrates, he argued that soul definitely exists out of some points including Argument of affinity, Argument from opposites, where everthing comes to be from out of its opposite, and the Theory of Recollection. He said that "True Philosophers should look forward to death", purpose being to free the spirit from the needs of the body. If you would like to understand more about this, I recommend reading Phaedo.
"Any reaction our heart has to emotional stimuli is really a reaction of the brain. The heart has been used as a metaphor, but I think this restrains us from truly defining emotional qualities."
A decision from a gut feeling is identified as a decision from the heart, and there seems to be a firm line that distinguishes a feeling and response from the heart and the brain. Where the brain processes mainly with complex ideas and mechanist approach of dealing with matter, the heart processes with mainly with morality.
Beauty is rarely used to depict men? Handsome serves as a substitute for the word beauty in men, where it is just cultural language that affects how we depict something that is pleasing to the eye, heart etc.