We are reading The Sound and the Fury in April. Please post your thoughts and questions on the book in this thread.
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We are reading The Sound and the Fury in April. Please post your thoughts and questions on the book in this thread.
Book Club Procedures
HoooraAAAAY!!!!!!!!!! I got my wish. Thanks all who voted.
I just checked it out today.
I just discovered that the edition I bought also contains As I Lay Dying!! I'm so excited! Yay! I hadn't noticed, because the cover is so faded, but I checked in the back today because it seemed too thick for just TSATF, and there it was!
But that has nothing to do with TSATF.
First-time readers: Spark Notes. I cannot stress enough. Here, also, is a good commentary on the novel. (Be forewarned, it's one massive spoiler.) My edition also contains the Appendix by Faulkner himself, which is essentially just a geneology of the Compson family, but also outlines a lot of the story. If your copy has it, definitely read it first.
Faulkner always kicks my ***,but I'm exicted about trying TSATF again.Help from all of you would be highly appreciated.
My American Lit. professor let us pick a book, out of three choices, and I picked TSATF. It'll be on the final but we won't get to discuss it in class. I'm a bit freaked out, I don't know what to expect on the final. I'm about 5/8 of the way through it, and I like it, but I'm not following the "geneology" very well. I'm planning on rereading some of it before my final, rather than Sparknotes. I can't stand spoilers.
Just so everyone can avoid the helpless feeling that some have when reading TSATF for the first time I thought I'd give a little orientation. These thoughts are not organized, so I'll write them as I think them.
It is a novel of family, a dysfunctional family, the Compsons. There is the father Jason (III) and a mother Caroline whose maiden name is Bascomb. They have four children, Quentin, Candice (Caddy), Jason (IV), and Benjy (originally named Maury but changed to Benjamin because Caroline's brother's name is Maury and when the family realized that the child was retarded they didn't want the association with Caroline's brother).
The novel is divided into four parts of four different days. Three of the days are of the Easter weekend in 1928. The fourth day is the day of Quentin's suicide on June 2, 1910. The first three parts are told in the voice (dramatic monologue) of the three brothers: Benjy (April 7, 1928), Quentin (June 2, 1910), and Jason IV (April 6, 1928). The fourth section is in third person, mostly limited to Dilsey's (the old black servant) point of view, and it takes place on Easter Sunday, (April 8, 1928).
Each section presents it's own reading difficulties. All the sections flashback to previous times, so when a flashback occurs it does jar the reader.
The first section is told through Benjy monologue, through the mind of a severely retarded man. His flashbacks are mostly connected to sensory experience. When a similar touch or sound recalls something similar from the past, his mind goes back to that experience. And Faulkner glides from one experience to another without warning, simulating Benjy’s mind.
I don’t think you need to know exactly which scenes are what to appreciate the novel. There are handbooks which detail that if you are interested. I think you just need to keep in mind the different category of scenes. Benjy’s recalls can be divided into several categories, and this is according to me, so take it for what it’s worth.
Present:
With Luster (Dilsey’s grandson) mostly in a pasture that was sold to become a golf course.
From 1910 to Present:
References to Quentin's suicide, Jason III's death, and some others.
From 1905 to 1910
Scenes of Caddy’s promiscuity, her wedding, and Benjy’s castration.
From Benjy’s infancy to 1905 (born in 1898):
Damuddy’s (Caroline’s mother) death, his name change, and a cold Christmas.
I hope this helps as a start. If anyone wishes, I’ll do a second for the Quentin section.
30 pages through the first section and I'm pretty happy because I'm not confused at all,but by page 50 I'm lost.
Ry - What passage are you stumbling on? Do you have the Vintage paperback edition? Who is in the scene that you're having trouble with?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryduce
This is what I know so far.........
Somebody died.
Luster is looking for a quarter to go to a show.
There on a golf course.
Caddie smells like trees.
Mrs. Patterson is having an affair???
I just realized I know nothing.
Did you read my orientation above?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryduce
Somebody died: Three people die though the course of the novel: Quentin, Jason III, and Roskus, Dilsey's husband. [Edit: Damuddy also dies.]
Luster is looking for a quarter: yes, but not all that important to the story. When Luster is looking for that quarter, it just signals that Faulkner has shifted to the present.
They're on a golf course: Yes, it was the pasture owned by the Compson family that was sold to send Quentin to harvard. Notice that when they call for the golf caddy, it reminds Benjy of his sister.
Caddie smells like trees: Yes, this is how Benjy remembers his sister. But it probably contains more significance than that, and perhaps at some point we should discuss it.
Mrs. Patterson is having an affair: Yes, with Uncle Maury. I'm not sure that it's that significant. It tells us something about Maury and the Bascomb family.
Besides the three people that Virgil mentioned, the death of Damuddy is also described (in flashback). I think this is probably the death you have in mind. Apologies to the book club for cheating a little and posting without having re-read the novel yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryduce
Oh, thanks. You are quite right.Quote:
Originally Posted by bluevictim
Oops, should really read all posts before I reply. :blush:
argggghhhh....I haven't finished yet!Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
Is everyone else finished? There are bits that are very uniquely observant, for example, when he describes the old man and the mule which he sees from the train. p.57 of my copy, in June Second. I feel at times like I'm reading a poem, not a novel. and boy, does he like looong sentences.
Quentin and Miss Quentin
Jason and Mr.Jason
Maury and Uncle Maury
I always mix these people up.I know who they are and everything,but because there is no concept of time I always get disoriented with who they are and their actions.
I know what you mean, Ryduce. Keeps you on your toes. The two Jason's are the most difficult, since both are at some point in the story the head of the household. It's easier to tell the Quentins apart, for instance, when one of them is wearing red lipstick. :p
Riesa—Lord, no I'm not finished. I'm about halfway through Quentin's chapter. He just bought the Italian girl a roll. I gather from Virgil's posts that he and I have both read it before.
Yes, it is a very poetic novel. The narrative flow has been broken down to vignettes and so it feels like four stanzas of a poem. Riesa, have you read a Faulkner novel before? I really like Faulkner's sentences. They are different and I'm always amazed at how he captures a voice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Riesa
Yes, emily. I read this many years ago while an undergraduate. I just finished this reading yesterday and I loved it more than in college. This was not my favorite Faulkner novel back then, and while Light In August still is my favorite, this reading really made me appreciate TSATF. I'm going to re-read it again. If I have some time (and Lord knows lately I don't have much to myself) I'm going to go to the NY Public Library (main branch in Manhattan, which is outstanding) and do some critical research and see what some scholars say. I really want to know this book.
I just finsihed the first chapter. why do you think it is that Caddie smells like trees? And why is it we can hear the roof and fire? What's that all about.
Thanks for the intro, Virgil. And the heads up, Emily. I've been looking at sparknotes. Don't know if I should have waited until second reading though. I like to read a book through without any aids to get a first impression, then go back and use the helps. My Faulkner experience so far includes a couple readings of The Bear (quite some time ago) and some of his short stories. I wish I could keep up with you guys, but I think I'm going to just be learning from you on this one. Busy time--teaching, family, etc. The first section has been quite a trip. I'm having a little bit of a hard time with it being the perspective of a mentally handicapped person. When Benjy talks (moans) and when others relate to him, it's obvious that he is in that condition, but when we are inside his mind, he seems like a normal person. It doesn't seem consistent. That's bothering me a little. I'm wondering why Faulkner portrays all of these people as so dysfunctional, except for Dilsey. Why her as the one who's got it together? Todd
Papayahead, don't know about the roof and the fire, but Caddie...I think she probably smells like the trees because she's outdoors with Benjy a lot and the smell of the trees is the smell of nature, probably symbolizing innocence and purity. Later on I believe, after her immoral experiences, she stops smelling that way to Benjy.
There is one episode, when Caddy's 14, where she stops smelling like trees, but it's because she uses perfume. I don't have time to write down the passage, but she realizes that's what's upsetting him, and has him give the bottle to Dilsey. I think it's the sweetest quote, it made me tear up:
It shows just how selflessly devoted to Benjy she is; his happiness is her happiness.Quote:
"We don't care for perfume, ourselves."
Certainly innocence. Emily points out the perfume smell as counterpoint. Also, when Quentin the young girl escapes out the window in the last section, climbing out the window, it is pointed out that the tree has a particular aroma, not just an ambigious smell of tree that Benjy associates.Quote:
Originally Posted by toddhill
The fire confused me too. I think (and I could be wrong and when I re-read it I'll be more careful) it's Benjy's way of describing his castration.
That's what I was thinking too, but then I think somewhere in there during Caddy's wedding she smelled like trees also, but at that point she wasn't innocent any long.Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
Hmmm. I'm just speaking off the top of my head. I could be way off, but maybe the fact that she is getting married is a good thing, a pure thing, and so she smells like trees again. What do you think?
This book is like watching a movie with the scenes out of order.
It is not chronological or linear,but it is like a bunch of still shots jumbled together to create one giant image.
Oh realy, I didn't catch that.Quote:
Originally Posted by papayahed
Yeah, I like that analogy. That's why it seems so poetic like Riesa said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryduce
That's an interesting theory. I'm going to keep that in mind as I continue reading.Quote:
Originally Posted by toddhill
More analysis, less peanut-gallery tomorrow. :p I've been giving my post-it notes a workout in Quentin's section. No time just now, though.
Hey, I just had an epiphany about the tree smell thing while I was walking my dog through the neighborhood just now. Trees are in bloom here, especially dogwood trees, which give off a particular aroma at this time of year. Today is Aprl 4, just a few days different from when the novel is set. So I imagine the same aromas from various tree types occur in Mississippi, if not more so than around me. So the tree smell is associated with spring (with all it's meanings of rebirth) and with April (ala Chaucer's Canterbury Tales or T.S. Eliot's Waste Land) and with Easter (it is the Holy Weekend) and with the risen Christ. Perhaps.Quote:
Originally Posted by papayahed
Well, I wouldn't go quite so far as the risen Christ (I've learned to balk at the suggestion of Christ figures in literature), but the spring/Easter connection is a very intriguing one. How astute, Virgil!
And, no fair! Trees are blooming in NY already? It snowed today here in Vermont. :p
(And, uh... yeah, I'm still here. I wasn't lying when I said I had no time... now I have negative time. :blush:)
We can discuss whether Benjy is a Christ figure in the novel at some point. I believe it said he was 33 years old in the present time of the novel.Quote:
Originally Posted by emily655321
Coicindentally, emily, your post count as I write this is 3,333!
Yes our trees are blooming. I love spring.
This has got to be the greatest sentence ever.
"Once a ***** always a *****,what I say."
oh, he is 33 isn't he?Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
There is a line somewhere in the book about the smell of dogwood or something or other - I'll have to fins it when I get home tonight.
So, why is it that Quentin's chapter is way more difficult then Benjy's??
I'm also noticing that there is mention of fire by Quentin as well.
I think there are a lot more Christ figures in literature than many realize. The thing about a Christ figure is that it's not Christ. It's not going to be just like Christ or it would be Christ. It's just a figure. There are some parallels. Also, it's an interpretation of Christ, and there are many of those. So we can say Benjy is a Christ figure because there are enough clues there. Then we interpret what Faulkner is saying about and through that figure. I personally think he does function as a Christ figure. todd
Great! Todd, I was going to say something to the same effect. Benjy is a person who draws compassion, the forever innocent. At least draws compassion for some.Quote:
Originally Posted by toddhill
I've always thought of a christ figure as someone that is "scarificed" for the others, I haven't seen that yet. Unless it's the fact that he was born "special".. I dunno, give me a math problem please.Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
And that's another thing, did Faulkner intend to have the "smelling like trees" mean something? Is symbolism intentional?
Do you think Faulkner was trying to be provocative by picturing Christ as an "idiot"?
The age of 33 and the Easter weekend would point to that comparison, but it disappoints me. I think there are, indeed, many Christ figures in literature, as well as an unlimited number of interpretations of characters who weren't intended as such. It's been done, and done, and done to death, and reads like a cop-out. Can't think of an original idea? Model your hero after Christ, or write an essay explaining why Holden Caulfield was like Christ... Plop Christ down in the context of modern society and somehow you're making an intellectual statement. Only trouble is, it's one a million other people have already made, and most of them were grasping at straws, too. It's like the literary equivalent of splatter paintings.
I'm not saying that's what Faulkner was doing. I'm sure it wasn't, since he didn't originally plan to publish TSATF; he was writing it for himself. But that is why the mention of Christ figures makes me cringe.
What's the background on how TSATF got published, or how Faulkner decided to publish it?
I can't find any sources that describe the publishing history, all I know is that Faulkner changed his mind once he finished the book, because it turned out to be such a personal success. There is mention made to his original motivation, following disillusionment with his publishers, in the page I linked to before:
Quote:
Before Faulkner wrote The Sound and the Fury, he had written a book which he thought was to be the book that would make his name as a writer. He wrote his publisher, “I have written THE book, of which those other things were but foals. I believe it is the damdest best book you’ll look at this year, and any other publisher.” That manuscript was Flags in the Dust, and it would not be published until eleven years after Faulkner’s death.
The discouragement of having Flags turned down, and then severely cut by his friend Ben Wasson into what would be published as Sartoris, apparently led Faulkner to begin writing a book entirely for himself, and publishers be damned. That book, originally titled “Twilight,” was The Sound and the Fury. Later, Faulkner would say it was the novel he felt most “tender” toward because it had caused him “the most grief and anguish.”
http://www.mcsr.olemiss.edu/~egjbp/faulkner/n-sf.html
emily, i can see if you have been exposed to that, you would cringe. i personally haven't had that experience. it actually came as a surprise to me. a pleasant one. i guess i'm kind of like a kid with this stuff. everything is so new and exciting. i don't cringe yet, but...
Back to Caddy smelling like trees, this line "Caddy smelled like trees and like when she says we were asleep", this was repeated a couple of times, it bothered me, what does he mean?