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I have always wondered about the idea behind the concept of 'Offerings'.
It is obviously a gesture of giving a gift to the gods.
Has this meaning have any bearings somehow in medieval paganism?
Pharoahs and Mayans seem to have indulged in the idea of a priest and offerings to the gods.
Discuss.
There are also sacrificial offerings, I suppose, in order to gain favour from the Gods. When it came to Druids, Aztecs, etc. To bring forth rains during drought, and simply bring good fortune. Much is shrouded in mystery.
I suppose that as far back as history is recorded, and earlier, humanity has humanized and personalized their deities, considering that the only way to gain something is to give something first. An exchange, or trade. The first economic system.
Offerings in Buddhism are made in order to show respect for the Teacher and gain merit. So Buddhist shrines often have fruit, flowers and other food on display.
For the same reasons a practitioner can make mental offerings as they wander around. Expensive things are not required. In fact the standard offering is of water.
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Originally Posted by BookBeauty
very interesting thoughts BookBeauty.Quote:
in order to gain favour from the Gods.
It is strange to think that gods wanted in anyhting in return.
The concept never crossed my mind.
It goes to show how naive they were. For a certain to have such complex architecture and wealth and yet they could not work out that rain or wealth was a matter fo working other more natural substantial ways like irrigationsQuote:
To bring forth rains during drought, and simply bring good fortune
This gives you a real insight into the way these people were.Quote:
and seeing beyond one region.
the only way to gain something is to give something first.
I mean it is unspeakable to think for me anyway, that obtaining something from someone is down to goods/materialism.
Returning favours is good and well, but doing what is right is more important then expecting something back.
It is similar to money, I will only help if you help me which is rather bizaar and closed minded way of being.
Again a very interesting point you raised here that I simply did not understand.Quote:
An exchange, or trade. The first economic system.
Yes it is a kind of a trade which is obvioulsy evident in human nature from the word go whihc can only be a very good thing.
However an offering is usually kind of a bribe to me, which is not a good thing to start with.
No bribery is better.
Trade is more important.:smile5:
I think Fire rituals in early Hinduism were intended to pacify the Gods and they gave rise to the Brahmin caste. The compex rituals were seen as necessary, but could only be conducted by the Brahmin Priestly class.
From what I've read, Mayan offerngs of human sacrifice were an attempt to pacify their Gods and put back what was seen as an end time for them.
The aristocracy understood pretty well what they were doing to establish the degeneration of the people. They eliminated most of the writings of Epicurus because he said that the Gods did not have transactions with the flesh and many other meaningful things having to do with fear of the Gods, which for most of them, the aristocracy, were funny characters. Then they brought about Lucretius giving clues to the matter in order to recruit future aristocrats.
We offer things like flowers, water, incense in Zen Buddhist temples, it's a symbolic gesture of gratitude. I think we'd all be pretty surprised if a Bodhisattva started granting us wishes because of them.
I am a Pagan, and I will at times pour out a libation to the gods, and I also have a small altar in dedication to the gods within my room. It is a way of offering them general thanks and gratitude as well as acknowledgement.
Though I might be arrogant in many ways, I have read the Odyssey and I am not going to fall prey to the crime of hubris :smilewinkgrin:
But in seriousness, if indeed you should seek help or guidance from the gods, or if you should meet with some good fortune than it is a generous and gracious thing to offer something in way of thanks to them for whatever aid they may have granted you.
If you're interested in the idea of God offerings, you may like the book American Gids by Neil Gaiman, which deals heavily with the idea.
I think that Paulclem makes an interesting few points. Many cultures and religions today center around the offerings of the Gods, whether it be material, or mental (In the form of meditation or prayer).
I remember visiting a Hindu temple. It was beautiful. So many statues, all so very colourful, and people coming in to offer bananas and fruit and little things, as well as prayers and meditations, because they appreciated their deity.
Perhaps at times it's not a matter of exchange, but rather, of giving thanks or gratitude for life and prosperity, as Darkmuse has pointed out. :)
But, way back in ancient times of Greece or Rome, or even today, behaviours are much the same as they were.
One thing I will say is that, as you say, cacian, it is a very narrow minded way of thinking, that the only way to share and be generous with one another is through bribery or greedy transaction. Unfortunately, it has been so engraved into our cultures that many people do not even realize how wrong it is. Those that are swept into the mire shouldn't be blamed. It's the environment that essentially shapes us, and will continue to do so.
Looking to Eastern cultures, there is much more community-mindedness and sharing without the need to take. :)
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Originally Posted by Paulclem
never heard of it.Quote:
Fire rituals in early Hinduism were intended to pacify the Gods and they gave rise to the Brahmin caste.
Brahmin caste??
That is new as well.
Must look it up.
Just quickly if I may and I am going to look it up too, what does a fire ritual involve?
more like butchery to me, excuse my language.How can anyone in their right mind think that gods let alone anyone would want or wish for human slaughtery. It is a despicable act there is no doubt about it.Quote:
Mayan offerngs of human sacrifice were an attempt to pacify their Gods and put back what was seen as an end time for them.[/
To me it is just unjustified and has no place in anyu culure decent of language and wealth.
The pharoahs were exactly the same, in the way that they buthchered the body prior to mommification. It is truly Yuck!! sorry.
thank you very Mutatis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandi
I shall have a look.:smile5:
I don't know what a fire ritual involved Cacian - I read about it ages ago. The Brahmin - Priestly class in early Indian history - 5000 and more years ago - kept the details secret. Perhaps its in the Upanishads - Hindu religious books - though I don't know.Quote:
Originally Posted by cacian
As for the Maya - I agree it was cruel. I merely popped it in here for info. I think it was bound up in their beliefs about Gods, time and the end of the world. That's where the 2012 myth about the end of the world comes from.