Do you think you would be happy in a perfect life?

I remember watching the movie [I]The Matrix[I], and there was one part where one of the bad guys was telling Keanu Reeves character (I think) that originally they had created a perfect world for humans--but that humans had rejected it. That part stuck in my head.

I've come to think about it more recently. I am a very late bloomer, and I have recently started making a move towards independence. I am having new experiences as a result of this. For the first time in my life, I have a bank account and I've made major purchases like a dryer. These seem like very little things, and I guess they are--but still I was rather traumatized when the first problems occurred. I literally cried.

I've lived long enough to know that most problems don't stick with you. You think something will hurt for the rest of your life, and there are really very few things that do. Even the few things that do leave scars that can be re-opened, like abuse or death, you don't tend to think about them all the time. I've also learned that a person always learns valuable lessons from the bad experiences. I've learned from the little problems that occurred recently.

When something bad happens, even though I know it won't last forever and I will probably learn something from it, I am very unhappy and wish it wouldn't be happening. I never appreciate the bad things, and I always wish to avoid them. Yet, I haven't been seriously wounded by any experience--and I've learned many valuable lessons from them. And they certainly give me interesting things to write about.

If there is a higher force at work, it does seem that our experiences--particularly the bad ones--help us learn lessons that move us towards enlightenment. Yet, I sometimes wonder if we would be happy in our concepts of enlightenment or heaven. Probably our concepts are flawed anyway--but do we really want to live in a perfect world? I have to admit that I get bored very quickly when my life is tranquil and perfect.

Of course, I suppose I should define perfect--because it might be a different concept for everyone. By perfect, I mean a world in which nothing distressing ever happens and no need goes unfulfilled. There are no problems of any sort.

If it's perfect, what's to complain over? :D

I understand your point. Through hardship and suffering we become better people. I agree. :)

So when people whine, why does God allow sufferring, they should come to your post for the answer.

The idea of a perfect world like the heaven some have believed in, where people float around on clouds and play harps, has often distressed and even disgusted people. It's true that that's really imperfect, to be in a situation with no challenges or opportunities to grow. I sincerely hope though that I'd be happy in a world in which pain and wickedness were eradicated. But that doesn't mean that one couldn't still be learning, expanding their mind, and facing challenges.

I grew up being taught that if we don't learn to live by the rules of "heaven" while on earth, we would be extremely unhappy in that perfect world. Whether one believes precisely in "heaven" or not, I still think that has something of a point.

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Originally Posted by Virgil

If it's perfect, what's to complain over? :D

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While amusing, this is also insightful. What exactly is wrong with a truly perfect world, if anything?

I am certain that very many have not become better people through suffering!

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Originally Posted by Gladys

While amusing, this is also insightful. What exactly is wrong with a truly perfect world, if anything?

I am certain that very many have not become better people through suffering!

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Yes I agree. I wouldn't complain if you took away all the pain from my life (i.e. work and getting up in the morning), I swear I would be perfectly happy with the peaceful, stress-free life. I just don't get all of that need to be suffering business, though it may work for some, I certainly don't count myself in that number. It sort of reminds me of when people say that they are glad to go back to work after a holiday. I kind of want to hit them. Hard. :boxing_smiley:

This might sound corny but I watched an old episode of Boston Legal where a girl had been sexually assaulted and her practitioner father wanted to administer a drug which would cause her to forget her trauma. The ethics of taking away the experience which will no doubt shape who she is vs protecting her from bad things.

The lawyer raised the valid point that if Tennyson had taken such a pill, Memoriam would never have been penned.

I know that this was Life,–the track
Whereon with equal feet we fared;
And then, as now, the day prepared
The daily burden for the back.

But this it was that made me move
As light as carrier-birds in air;
I loved the weight I had to bear,
Because it needed help of Love:

Nor could I weary, heart or limb,
When mighty Love would cleave in twain
The lading of a single pain,
And part it, giving half to him.

What diverse human art would we be robbed of, if we lived a 'perfect life'?

In Star Trek (the original series), the characters have rejected more paradises than anyone in history or fiction!

If I were to have a religion and believe in some sort of heaven and hell, I would definitely prefer to go to hell. Why? Because heaven would be nice for the first couple days, maybe a couple weeks. Then I would get bored. I know, there is an infinity of activities to do in heaven, but still, the fact that it comes so easily... At least in hell I would have something to do. I would be planning my escape every day of eternity. I know you can't escape from hell. That's the point.

It is impossible for humans to be happy where everything comes easy. It's written in our genes that we must obtain satisfaction from a job well done. If our species was one that enjoyed doing nothing for a long period of time over working hard to get something else, we'd be long extinct.

Natural selection wrote into the very core of who we are that we are not supposed to choose to live in paradise. There is therefore no such thing as a perfect life. Now we humans live pretty comfortably. Most of us in the developed countries do not have to worry about food and such things, and we have no predators. Therefore we create our own problems. We create complex systems of politics and economics to worry about. We create dramas out of our not-so-important personal lives. We decide to fight massive wars about stupid things. We need problems, conflicts and all the bad things.

our experiences define us, I think, bad and good. I wish I hadn't lost my dad and other family members but I am certain that my life wouldn't be what it is if he had lived, I know my choices would have been different and I even think I wouldn't have my boy or my dog if I had had my dad in my teenage years. Things would be different, maybe better maybe not. Also I don't think we appreciate the good things when there are no bad things and no obstacles. everything is just mediocre.

when it comes to heaven, I think,like we see in all above posts, people have a different view of that place, a place we don't even know is real.

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Originally Posted by Neely

Yes I agree. I wouldn't complain if you took away all the pain from my life (i.e. work and getting up in the morning), I swear I would be perfectly happy with the peaceful, stress-free life. I just don't get all of that need to be suffering business, though it may work for some, I certainly don't count myself in that number. It sort of reminds me of when people say that they are glad to go back to work after a holiday. I kind of want to hit them. Hard. :boxing_smiley:

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Neely, let's not be cynical now. It may be that others are doing something wonderfully soul-fulfilling in their work, but for the other 99.999%, your prescription for a perfect life (especially not getting up in the morning) is a very reasonable concept. I hate to feel smug about it, but tomorrow I intend sleeping until I can no longer stand being in bed; I absolutely love it.

The problem is we all have different perceptions of what a perfect life will constitute. This invariably means that our interests are destined to clash with anothers, shattering the perfectness of it all. Isaiah Berlin Negative and Positive freedoms and all that....

"liberty in the negative sense involves an answer to the question: 'What is the area within which the subject — a person or group of persons — is or should be left to do or be what he is able to do or be, without interference by other persons'."

I fully agree with everyone about how suffering is necessary to make us better people. (And perhaps even to produce great art, since Delta mentioned the great In Memoriam. If I had the book here I'd start quoting. :smile5:)

However, on this subject my mind goes in circles. I accept the simple facts that our world is imperfect, that humans are imperfect, and that the seemingly terrible things can develop and refine character for the better. But a 'perfect' world (whatever that means) would become imperfect rapidly if the people had not learned those lessons of self-control, etc. that come through suffering. The way we're talking about a 'perfect world' we're taking it for granted that while everything may be going perfectly in the world, there is still something undesirable that needs to be refined out of human character or nature. But you simply can't have a perfect world while that something is active in us. I think a perfect world would have to be dependent upon perfect people. If, and how, that's possible is another story. And then the idea of what's 'perfect' is so subjective.

We all agree that pain can do us good, but our world can't become perfect through that merely. There will always be those who won't choose to profit from their pain and will become bitter and cause more pain and evil.

What I'm saying is that the problem is not with 'perfection' but what perfection is and how it is achieved.

Oh, yet we trust that somehow good
Will be the final end of ill,
To pangs of nature, sins of will,
Defects of doubt, and taints of blood...


Behold, we know not anything;
I can but trust that good shall fall
At last--far off--at last, to all,
And every winter change to spring.

@Neely--remind me to stay away from you.:smilewinkgrin: I was always one of those people who looked forward to a vacation, enjoyed it for three days, and then wanted to go back to school or work.

You know what bothers me about perfection? That death always seems to follow it. Are there any human myths about perfect cities--like Atlantis--that didn't die of some horrible epidemic or get leveled by a natural disaster soon upon achieving perfection?

It is a good point, though, that maybe it is our imperfection that makes us unhappy with perfection. Maybe if we could become perfect, then living in a perfect world wouldn't be terrible.

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Originally Posted by Brian Bean

Neely, let's not be cynical now. It may be that others are doing something wonderfully soul-fulfilling in their work, but for the other 99.999%, your prescription for a perfect life (especially not getting up in the morning) is a very reasonable concept. I hate to feel smug about it, but tomorrow I intend sleeping until I can no longer stand being in bed; I absolutely love it.

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Ah, snoozing in bed when others are getting up at unholy hours is half the fun! In my thinking it is a most intellectual and noble pursuit, if not something of an art. All the best fellow philosopher!!

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Originally Posted by SilentMute

@Neely--remind me to stay away from you.:smilewinkgrin: I was always one of those people who looked forward to a vacation, enjoyed it for three days, and then wanted to go back to school or work.

You know what bothers me about perfection? That death always seems to follow it. Are there any human myths about perfect cities--like Atlantis--that didn't die of some horrible epidemic or get leveled by a natural disaster soon upon achieving perfection?

It is a good point, though, that maybe it is our imperfection that makes us unhappy with perfection. Maybe if we could become perfect, then living in a perfect world wouldn't be terrible.

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Three days? The people I am on about want to get back after 5 weeks!! Crazy:crazy: Is what I say to them, are you mad? Too much fun and free time in the summer months? All those mellow lazy days getting you down? Those trips to the country? Those morning coffees? Those visits to country pubs and national parks? Those halcyon days of joy? Of walking. Of reading. Of cycling. Of thinking. Of not thinking. Of sitting on rocks and grass. Of trips to art galleries and concerts. Of meeting friends. Of spending time, most importantly, with the children while they are young. Of a thousand other things that whims are made of? Need the pain instead? No thanks.:crazy:

More to follow from me on the needing crap stuff to happen myth most likely...but for now...:Yawn:

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Three days? The people I am on about want to get back after 5 weeks!! Crazy:crazy: Is what I say to them, are you mad? Too much fun and free time in the summer months? All those mellow lazy days getting you down? Those trips to the country? Those morning coffees? Those visits to country pubs and national parks? Those halcyon days of joy? Of walking. Of reading. Of cycling. Of thinking. Of not thinking. Of sitting on rocks and grass. Of trips to art galleries and concerts. Of meeting friends. Of spending time, most importantly, with the children while they are young. Of a thousand other things that whims are made of? Need the pain instead? No thanks.:crazy:

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Ah! You know what it is? I do all the vacation things in my normal life anyway, so maybe I don't need vacations! But I do like work and school because it gives me a routine, which is sorely missed when I'm on vacation. Without a routine, I don't notice the food dwindling or the laundry piling up until I'm hungry and naked.

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More to follow from me on the needing crap stuff to happen myth most likely...but for now...:Yawn:

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A person can learn from positive experiences, I imagine, but from personal experience I have to say that my pain and suffering have been the best teachers.

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Originally Posted by Neely

Ah, snoozing in bed when others are getting up at unholy hours is half the fun!

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You are absolutely right as far as I am concerned. I often wake up at my old going to work time and the pleasure in turning over and going back to sleep is wonderful. Now that the winter is coming, I look forward to staying in bed during the cold, dark, wet mornings even more. For those who like going out on such mornings I say enjoy, for those who don't I sympathise.
My advice to anyone who has to face the daily grind is to go for the largest amount of money you can and retire as soon as possible.

You know it makes sense.