Help me analyse 'Engineers' Corner' by Wendy Cope

Hi.

I am an A-Level English Language & Literature student and currently working on 'Making Cocoa for Kingsley Amis' by Wendy Cope.

Could someone help me analyse the poem 'Engineer's Corner' (Copied below). I can pick up some of the basic literary devices but my real problem is expressing their effects.

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Engineers' Corner
by Wendy Cope

Why isn't there an Engineers' Corner in Westminster Abbey? In Britain we've always made more fuss of a ballad than a blueprint ... How many schoolchildren dream of becoming great engineers?
-- advertisement placed in The Times by the Engineering Council

We make more fuss of ballads than of blueprints --
That's why so many poets end up rich,
While engineers scrape by in cheerless garrets.
Who needs a bridge or dam? Who needs a ditch?
Whereas the person who can write a sonnet
Has got it made. It's always been the way,
For everybody knows that we need poems
And everybody reads them every day.
Yes, life is hard if you choose engineering --

....


Analysis of her other poems (from the same book) on how she creates 'humour' and 'parody' very appreciated.

Thanks...

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Edited by Logos 19 March 2009 to add:

as per this thread:

http://www.online-literature.com/for...ad.php?t=17515

this poem above by Cope that was originally posted in its entirety has been snipped! Please respect copyright laws!

You can read in Cope's own words

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2007...ardianreview14

why she and SO many other creators of intellectual property would like YOU to respect what they do.

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I think this poem has been written specifically to carry the message that whilst Engineers are essential to modern life, their inventions and constructive skills go virtually unrecognised by most people. Wendy Cope is contrasting this with poets and poetry whose work is recognised, praised and rewarded both by fame and by fortune, while engineers are generally faceless and underpaid for the work that they do. I think that because of this Cope does not use too many literary devices because the poetic form isn't being used for artistic purpose, but to convey an opinion in a way that will capture interest in a short and snappy way, that is inviting and concise to read.

I think that most used literary devices in this poem are alliteration - and rhyme. Cope begins 'We make more' which has a nice rhythym and sound to it, then she picks up the letter 'b' to bring to our attention to her contrasting subjects - 'ballads and blueprints.' This sentence explains nothing, but awakens our curiosity and brings suspense to the poem. The reader immediately wants to know why and how these two seemingly unconnected 'objects' have anything to do with each other.

In the fourth line, Cope picks up the letter 'd' to bind the words together, then uses irony to bring our attention back to her subject 'Who needs a bridge or dam? Who needs a ditch?' These words sound kind of 'throwaway, but the effect of them is to appal us because obviously bridges, dams and ditches are now an essential part of our everyday lives.

She goes on 'for everyone knows that we need poems and read them everyday.' This too is ironic - as the statement isn't true at all. Poetry is not a necessary part of living and not everyone reads them every day. She actually means the opposite of what she has written. This too is a device and if I had a better memory and wasn't quite so thick, I would remember what the device is called.

However her next line plainly and boldly does speak the truth 'life is hard is you choose engineering, you're sure to need another job as well.' - reiterating her theme that an engineer's lot is far from easy and financially difficult.

Anyway here's a start - hopefully some help..getting a headache now with all this thinking at past midnight.

Miranda

Brilliant analysis. Thanks alot. I'll build on that...

well that person's analysis is wrong

the poem is a poem of complete irony the whole way through! therefore the poet is saying how poet's do not have a life of luxury i.e they don't earn a lot of money (i.e the use of irony in the poem, where it is said that poets do earn a lot of money.)

so when reading this poem, take everything meaning the opposite.

If you don't believe me, then just think ; "why would a poet write a poem which had views against poetry?"

Thank you and good night

As someone who has worked in engineering - building roads, an airstrip, etc - and who has written both verse and prose most of his life, I would ask is
Engineer's Corner actually a poem, or just a series of thoughts that happen to rhyme?

Also, apart from Poet Laureate (and Andrew Motion's latest bleatings about not being able to come up with anything for state occasions has me wondering why he took on the post), writing any sort of fiction does not, in my book, constitute "a job".

So Wendy Cope has created a false concept that poets and engineers are the opposite faces of some imaginary coin. They are not. Perhaps it is just that poets finish up in cathedrals, since both poets and preachers spend their lives talking and writing about the abstract; engineers (you can see it coming) deal with the concrete, and that is where their busts should be. Go to Paddington Station in London and see Britain's most famous engineer - Isambard Kingdom Brunel. Travel from Paddington to Bristol and admire the poetry of his Great Western Railway. Go to the Clifton Gorge and see his memorial in the form of the Clifton Suspension Bridge, go to Bristol docks and see his pioneering yet elegant SS Great Britain.

If you want to see another place where poetry and engineering meet, go to Beattock Summit on the West Coast main line from Euston to Glasgow and sit down and read Auden's "Night Mail": "This is the Night Mail crossing the border, Bringing the cheque and the postal order, Letters for the rich, letters for the poor, . . . "

Engineeers spend years studying to become proficient at their profession, to ensure that bridges or buildings don't collapse and kill people. Poets may go on writing courses, yet when a poet writes a bad poem no one is going to get killed (except possibly the poet).

Coincidentally, yesterday on BBC Radio Four's Poetry Please, the featured poet was Canadian Robert Service - remember The Shooting of Dan McGrew? - and Service, despite starting as a bank clerk made penty of money as a poet. So cut the nonsense about poor poets and rich engineeers, Brunel died just 53, worn out by travelling by horse and stage coach, and by battling against contractors and politicians. He was not found slumped over a keyboard, a worn rhyming dictionary in his limp hand.

Stop worrying about what Cope meant, or did not mean. Either like it or leave it. Today's poem is tomorrow's bog paper. I should know; it come close to what I'm told I write.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JACKHESKETHxxx

well that person's analysis is wrong

the poem is a poem of complete irony the whole way through! therefore the poet is saying how poet's do not have a life of luxury i.e they don't earn a lot of money (i.e the use of irony in the poem, where it is said that poets do earn a lot of money.)

so when reading this poem, take everything meaning the opposite.

If you don't believe me, then just think ; "why would a poet write a poem which had views against poetry?"

Thank you and good night

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You are quite right Jack. This poem drips with irony. Frankly the poet is just a whiner. She can't understand why engineers earn a decent living and poets don't make any money.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eric Hayman

As someone who has worked in engineering - building roads, an airstrip, etc - and who has written both verse and prose most of his life, I would ask is
Engineer's Corner actually a poem, or just a series of thoughts that happen to rhyme?

Also, apart from Poet Laureate (and Andrew Motion's latest bleatings about not being able to come up with anything for state occasions has me wondering why he took on the post), writing any sort of fiction does not, in my book, constitute "a job".

So Wendy Cope has created a false concept that poets and engineers are the opposite faces of some imaginary coin. They are not. Perhaps it is just that poets finish up in cathedrals, since both poets and preachers spend their lives talking and writing about the abstract; engineers (you can see it coming) deal with the concrete, and that is where their busts should be. Go to Paddington Station in London and see Britain's most famous engineer - Isambard Kingdom Brunel. Travel from Paddington to Bristol and admire the poetry of his Great Western Railway. Go to the Clifton Gorge and see his memorial in the form of the Clifton Suspension Bridge, go to Bristol docks and see his pioneering yet elegant SS Great Britain.

If you want to see another place where poetry and engineering meet, go to Beattock Summit on the West Coast main line from Euston to Glasgow and sit down and read Auden's "Night Mail": "This is the Night Mail crossing the border, Bringing the cheque and the postal order, Letters for the rich, letters for the poor, . . . "

Engineeers spend years studying to become proficient at their profession, to ensure that bridges or buildings don't collapse and kill people. Poets may go on writing courses, yet when a poet writes a bad poem no one is going to get killed (except possibly the poet).

Coincidentally, yesterday on BBC Radio Four's Poetry Please, the featured poet was Canadian Robert Service - remember The Shooting of Dan McGrew? - and Service, despite starting as a bank clerk made penty of money as a poet. So cut the nonsense about poor poets and rich engineeers, Brunel died just 53, worn out by travelling by horse and stage coach, and by battling against contractors and politicians. He was not found slumped over a keyboard, a worn rhyming dictionary in his limp hand.

Stop worrying about what Cope meant, or did not mean. Either like it or leave it. Today's poem is tomorrow's bog paper. I should know; it come close to what I'm told I write.

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Very good analysis Eric. I too am an engineer who writes peotry and prose as a hobby. I've seen both sides of the coin and there is no question as to which is more critical to society. I'm not saying poetry is not important to society but frankly standards of living do not depend on a poet.

these are good resposes, but does anyone know the answer to 'why do we need engineers more than poets?'

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chickey

these are good resposes, but does anyone know the answer to 'why do we need engineers more than poets?'

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You don't need to ask. A free market decides by spending their money as to which they feel brings more value to their lives. Is it a washermachine that does clothes rather than bringing the clothes to the river and hand washing or reading a poem. I think given that kind of choice most people would choose the washermachine. How about this? Next time you take a crap, ask yourself would I want this toilet and running water and this toilet paper (which is a highly designed piece of technology) or would I prefer to read Wordsworth and let my rear get sticky and dirty? That's your choice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Virgil

Next time you take a crap, ask yourself would I want this toilet and running water and this toilet paper (which is a highly designed piece of technology) or would I prefer to read Wordsworth and let my rear get sticky and dirty? That's your choice.

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:lol::lol:

These are very good analysis
but would anyone be able to expand on the reasons why she is ironic?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lauracuddihy

These are very good analysis
but would anyone be able to expand on the reasons why she is ironic?

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I can't tell exactly without reading the entire poem. I can see two possibilities. (1) That she is supporting the argument both Eric Haymen and I make that engineers are so much more critical to society than poets or (2) she is one of those bitter artsy types that feels that artists deserve to be paid huge amounts of money. If it's the first, she is making the argument in the poem so silly that one would reject without thinking. If it's the second then she's using verbal irony through sarcasm.

well from what i can gather..
this poem is in response to an article found in the times "why isnt there an engineers corner in westminster abbey? in britain we make more fuss of a ballad than a blueprint.... How many schoolchildren dream of becoming great engineers?

the poet is saying that engineers are severely under-respected and under valued in society..

as for irony : the author uses a speaker to support the above quote and yet show its absurdity at the same time.