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Would any Muslims care to explain this in the Koran:
8.12 When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore
make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of
those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off
every fingertip of them.
This is a particularly odious statement.
Where's Littlenani when you need her?
I tell ya, that Koranic quote is even worse than some of the stuff in the Old Testament.
ever read the verse that said, religious men who go to heaven will get beautiful angels as their new beloved wifes..? however no verse who stated that religious women will get hot sexy husbands once they go to heaven..
not trying to disgrace the belief or the book. just wondering..
Quote:
Originally Posted by atiguhya padma
pls share some "worse" quotations from bible, i'm interested to find out
If you have no enough belief in God or if you don’t have quite strong faith in God you certainly may get idea to take GOD’s quotes as negative stuffs. I myself time after time get suspicions if I meet something at first sight quite unreasonable for me in Koran. But after getting explanation of these “unreasonable” stuffs my faith is growing. To understand Koran is difficult and you can’t get it without additional clue materials which explain real meaning of posts of Koran.
I found Online English translation of Koran quite incomplete. There should be given explanations of posts in brackets.
That’s why you can’t get that in this ayat (and in whole surah) God reminds about Badr fighting, where God helped muslims, (sending angels to help them) take victory at enemies of God. And this was the punishment way God chose for them. We know that we are rewarded and punished for our good and bad acts by God
Before take it so odious you should also pay attention to following ayats:
8.5.- Just as thy Lord ordered thee out of thy house in truth, even though a party among the Believers disliked it,
8.7 -Behold! Allah promised you one of the two (enemy) parties, that it should be yours: Ye wished that the one unarmed should be yours, but Allah willed to justify the Truth according to His words and to cut off the roots of the Unbelievers;-
8.8. That He might justify Truth and prove Falsehood false, distasteful though it be to those in guilt.
8.9. Remember ye implored the assistance of your Lord, and He answered you: "I will assist you with a thousand of the angels, ranks on ranks."
8.10. Allah made it but a message of hope, and an assurance to your hearts: (in any case) there is no help except from Allah: and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.
8.11. Remember He covered you with a sort of drowsiness, to give you calm as from Himself, and he caused rain to descend on you from heaven, to clean you therewith, to remove from you the stain of Satan, to strengthen your hearts, and to plant your feet firmly therewith.
8.12. Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."
8.13. This because they contended against Allah and His Messenger: If any contend against Allah and His Messenger, Allah is strict in punishment.
8.14. Thus (will it be said): "Taste ye then of the (punishment): for those who resist Allah, is the penalty of the Fire."
8.17. It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah: when thou threwest (a handful of dust), it was not thy act, but Allah's: in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself: for Allah is He Who heareth and knoweth (all things).
8.42. Remember ye were on the hither side of the valley, and they on the farther side, and the caravan on lower ground than ye. Even if ye had made a mutual appointment to meet, ye would certainly have failed in the appointment: But (thus ye met), that Allah might accomplish a matter already enacted; that those who died might die after a clear Sign (had been given), and those who lived might live after a Clear Sign (had been given). And verily Allah is He Who heareth and knoweth (all things).
8.43. Remember in thy dream Allah showed them to thee as few: if He had shown them to thee as many, ye would surely have been discouraged, and ye would surely have disputed in (your) decision; but Allah saved (you): for He knoweth well the (secrets) of (all) hearts.
8.44. And remember when ye met, He showed them to you as few in your eyes, and He made you appear as contemptible in their eyes: that Allah might accomplish a matter already enacted. For to Allah do all questions go back (for decision).
8.48. Remember Satan made their (sinful) acts seem alluring to them, and said: "No one among men can overcome you this day, while I am near to you": But when the two forces came in sight of each other, he turned on his heels, and said: "Lo! I am clear of you; lo! I see what ye see not; Lo! I fear Allah: for Allah is strict in punishment."
8.50. If thou couldst see, when the angels take the souls of the Unbelievers (at death), (How) they smite their faces and their backs, (saying): "Taste the penalty of the blazing Fire-
8.51. Because of (the deeds) which your (own) hands sent forth; for Allah is never unjust to His servants:
8.60. Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.
8.61. But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things).
THE GOD IS MOST GRACIOUS, MOST MERCIFUL!
Sub, I'm sorry that my knowledge isn't so perfect on this subject and actually I've not finished reading Koran yet. Because I try to read Koran in original arabic. As my arabic is weak it takes quite long time to finish it. I'm sure there's something regarding what relgious women will get in heaven. It might not reflected in Koran, but there should be something in Hadises. I'll share it as soon as I get anything.
Thanks, caspian, you've saved me some trouble with your quotes. I've found the problem with most of those who quote violent sections of the Koran (especially those who are using it to try to show that the Koran urges violence and thus the tactics of terror - and I don't necessarily mean you, atiguhya padma), take quotes out of the context in which they were written. Also many forget the early history of Islam.
I think the verse which follows the one you cite, ap, is the point. This charge is directed against those who are active enemies of Islam. Remember that early in its history, there were several quite serious attempts to destroy the faith, and what you have here is a response to that. There is nothing here to suggest that those who accept Muslims should be attacked. This injunction is specifically targeted at those who "contend against Allah and His Messenger."
I think it's also important to note that this is God's message to his angels. He is not sanctioning humans to take this action.
look my dears...iam really want to make frinds here so that i try to avoide the religuos conversations...
iam not a religous girl but ifeel sorry when isee there some people who attackes islam or koran ...the islam is full of mercy and kindness and intemacy ....it is not areligoun of terarrism as you think
in our religion there was awoman who enter Hill
do you know why???
because she didnot feed her cat or let it to eat from the earth
and in the contrary there was apersonwho enter Paradise because he gave water to a dog from adeep well even he was a tired
we have in koran (by the meaning):
"the one who kills a suol as if he kills all people and the one who rescues asoul as if he rescues all people
i learn from koran to respect my parents and obey them
i learn from koran to feed the poor people and take care about orphans by imbracing them and give them the love they need
i learn from koran to respect other religoins
i learn from koran to be honest, and kind with other and to be areal muslim
i learn from koran to be humble with old and weak people
and as our prophet said (by the meaning)
our God will helps the person who helps the other
my dear the propleme is not from koran but from the poor translation ...because ther are many arabic words dont have the same level of the meaning in the english language or any language sothat the real meaning will not be clear
re :wave: :wave: :wave: gards
Quote:
Originally Posted by atiguhya padma
you are not respecting the Holy Book by describing it by saying 'even worse'
please every one :
for Allah's sake you have to pay respect a full respect when talking about us Muslims and our Holy Book The Nobel Qur'an...
I am realy getting angry when I see so called learners insulting and showing the hate which is inside their black hearts..
learners and readers of The Holy Qur'an please Pay respect to Our and your creator.for the words you read in Qur'an is Allah's words.
Hope to see such respectable learners of Qur'an
caspian..May Allah bless you and give a better reward...loads of love to you under the flage of Islam ....I'll make doa'a(pray)for you in the holy Mosque ..wishing for you the best,
Your sister in Islam,
Green Utopia
Green Utopia, You are angry, but you should not be. This thread is very thought provoking I agree, but it is also teaching others about Islam as you and others that follow that religion correct the things that can be misconstrued in it. I don't know much about Islam but I am always willing to learn and this is the first real discussion I have ever encountered where the Koran is being discussed. I always thought of the Islam as a peaceful religion. We have to be very careful how we talk here because otherwise this could cross over into a political discussion which is not allowed here. But in every religion there are always extremists and it seems to me that some of these extremists have done and are doing bad things in the name of Islam. This is a chance to show the truth of your religion and as you have already done, and to correct misunderstandings about it. I really want to learn more from your discussion.
I am a Christian and I could also get upset regarding what AP said, when he referred to the Old Testament of the bible. But I am not upset because what he says is actually right and there are some places in the Old Testament that appear to be violent, just the same as the Koran. But as someone else says, everything has to be looked at in context, not only literal but in what was also going on at the time of writing and the society in which it took place.
Understanding is the key to building bridges I think and learning about each other's religion is a starting place, wouldn't you agree? I would like to know more about Islam yet I dont want to study the Koran. I would like to have a better understanding of what true believers like you actually believe though and this would be a perfect opportunity to find out, if you would not be so angry, but still continue to explain as you and others have here.
Miranda
Hey Caspian,
I take it Allah isn't a god of love then?
I mean listen, whether it is Allah, his army or whatever, it is till odious to decapitate people or chop their fingers off just cos they disagree with you or do not accept you.
Really? Well, here are some:Quote:
Originally Posted by subterranean
In Holy Bible it is written:
Quote:
13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; 13:7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; 13:8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: 13:9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
Quote:
31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
Quote:
25:5 And Moses said unto the judges of Israel, Slay ye every one his men that were joined unto Baalpeor.
Quote:
32:27 And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.
Now, what can we deduct from here:Quote:
9:6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.
Christianity and judaism are religions of violence and intolerance? Is it so at the moment? If you feel so, only then you should say that islam is violent and intolerant, because in Koran there are some violent suggestions.
Ok, I wouldn't ask if you have faith.Quote:
Originally Posted by atiguhya padma
I had belief in GOD more before I've started reading Koran - just because I always felt HIs existing. "Thus, if God is truly our creature, sustainer, provider and controller , then believing in him is an obvious requirement of accepting and submitting to one of the most significant truths about this world, about ourselves and about life."
ALLAH MUSTN'T BE COMPARED WITH whatever!!!!!!!
People are God's creature-
67.23 Say: "It is He Who has created you (and made you grow), and made for you the faculties of hearing, seeing, feeling and understanding: little thanks it is ye give.
67.24. Say: "It is He Who has multiplied you through the earth, and to Him shall ye be gathered together."
67.2.He Who created Death and Life, that He may try which of you is best in deed: and He is the Exalted in Might, Oft-Forgiving;-
You should accept that GOD is Mighty in punishing those, who transgress in this test. AND He's Mighty in decapitation His own creatures or choping their fingers off if they don't accept HIM- their CREATOR.
Reading following ayats you can see that the creatures who were against GOD got their punishment (death) regarding circumstance in whch they were. Decapitation was not the definite one.
11(36) It was revealed to Noah: "None of thy people will believe except those who have believed already! So grieve no longer over their (evil) deeds.
11(37) "But construct an Ark under Our eyes and Our inspiration, and address Me no (further) on behalf of those who are in sin: for they are about to be overwhelmed (in the Flood)."
11(38) Forthwith he (starts) constructing the Ark: Every time that the chiefs of his people passed by him, they threw ridicule on him. He said: "If ye ridicule us now, we (in our turn) can look down on you with ridicule likewise!
11(39)But soon will ye know who it is on whom will descend a penalty that will cover them with shame,- on whom will be unloosed a penalty lasting:"
11(40) At length, behold! there came Our command, and the fountains of the earth gushed forth! We said: "Embark therein, of each kind two, male and female, and your family - except those against whom the word has already gone forth,- and the Believers." but only a few believed with him.
11(41) So he said: "Embark ye on the Ark, In the name of Allah, whether it move or be at rest! For my Lord is, be sure, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful!"
11(42) So the Ark floated with them on the waves (towering) like mountains, and Noah called out to his son, who had separated himself (from the rest): "O my son! embark with us, and be not with the unbelievers!"
11(43) The son replied: "I will betake myself to some mountain: it will save me from the water." Noah said: "This day nothing can save, from the command of Allah, any but those on whom He hath mercy! "And the waves came between them, and the son was among those overwhelmed in the Flood.
11(44) Then the word went forth: "O earth! swallow up thy water, and O sky! Withhold (thy rain)!" and the water abated, and the matter was ended. The Ark rested on Mount Judi, and the word went forth: "Away with those who do wrong!"
11(45) And Noah called upon his Lord, and said: "O my Lord! surely my son is of my family! and Thy promise is true, and Thou art the justest of Judges!"
11(46) He said: "O Noah! He is not of thy family: For his conduct is unrighteous. So ask not of Me that of which thou hast no knowledge! I give thee counsel, lest thou act like the ignorant!"
11(47) Noah said: "O my Lord! I do seek refuge with Thee, lest I ask Thee for that of which I have no knowledge. And unless thou forgive me and have Mercy on me, I should indeed be lost!"
11(48) The word came: "O Noah! Come down (from the Ark) with peace from Us, and blessing on thee and on some of the peoples (who will spring) from those with thee: but (there will be other) peoples to whom We shall grant their pleasures (for a time), but in the end will a grievous penalty reach them from Us."
11(49) Such are some of the stories of the unseen, which We have revealed unto thee: before this, neither thou nor thy people knew them. So persevere patiently: for the End is for those who are righteous.
Caspian,
1) Don’t tell me what comparisons I can or cannot make. That is entirely up to me. You ain’t got no say in the matter OK? I live in a democratic society that encourages me to make comparisons, to think for myself.
2) I was thinking of reading the Koran, but quite honestly, if it’s all as tedious as this I doubt that I will
3) Out of interest, what does it mean when the Koran says <Such are some of the stories of the unseen, which We have revealed unto thee>
I mean who is ‘we’?
Taliesin, you forgot to write from which book you quoted those, as you know I'm not a bible expert...
AP, for your number 1 point, it's understandable if Caspian thought like that (however this is not mean his is justified). He lives in (i believe) a less democratic country (like my self) where people (in general) weren't raised to accept different thoughts and opinions openly.
Thanks Miranda for your decent and polite reply:)
Actually I wish to answer the others questions here but my English need to be improved regarding choosing the proper equivalents especially when it comes to the Koranic texts.So people may understand. ..please Mirry don't blame me in being angry because I love Allah ,it's my duty to answer and to defend .because the Koran is written in Arabic(my mothertongue)..at the same time I have to avoid answering those who have the habit of insulting or using the bad words in describing other religions..Caspain handeled the situation here very well...Allah actually advises us by saying that "don't insult the others(non Muslim) for they'll insult Me unfairly without knowledge"...so Allah teaches me to be polite where or when or how ever I am ..
I welcome your questions Miranda with much happiness and warmth feelings because you are really a true seeker for knowledge ..email me at:[email protected]
you are going to receive answers that are true about How islam is unfairly treated and misunderstood....then our discussions will be presented here for the others to get benefit from a successful way of asking and getting the answers..
Much appreciations,
Green Utopia