although Siddhartha says he cannot love anyone i believe he loves his son and possibly Kamala? feedback would be wonderful thank you!
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although Siddhartha says he cannot love anyone i believe he loves his son and possibly Kamala? feedback would be wonderful thank you!
Siddhartha the Man or Siddhahartha when enlightened?Quote:
Originally Posted by wo0dy
Although Siddhartha definitely loves his son and possibly Kamala, he is under no delusions as to what love really is-a powerful , blinding emotion, that makes the self forget the unity of all creation. At the end when he says that love is the most important thing in the world, he means loving and accepting the world for what it is. Unconditionally loving life and the world we live in is the path to peace.Quote:
Originally Posted by wo0dy
does siddhartha love anyone? when push comes to shove he only really loves himself.he does anything to keep himself happy, or content. even when he takes in his son he only does so because he feels the need to.
There are many different meanings of love in the english language, so in answer to you question, yes and no. Firstly no because in order to reach an enlightened state one must relenquish all earthly connections, only with human ties can you reach this state of nirvana. So in the conventional sense of the word no, he did not love them otherwise he would never had been able to reach an enlightened state.
However that doesn't mean that he does not care for them. Their lives are meaningful to him, as what happens to his son and Kamala is important to Siddhartha. So he does love them in a sense of the word.
A third way in which you could interpret the word love, is in the physical sense. Kama meaning desire, is probably why the name Kamala was chosen for this novel. Siddhartha obviously loved her in that way because she produces a son.
Sorry I don't mean to drag this out but yes and no, Siddhartha loves his son and Kamala and even Govinda, but in a certain way, not really in the traditional western sense of the word.
I think that Siddartha loves his son and no one else. He feels compelled to treat him kindly despite his son being unappreciative and spoiled, and also feels compelled to follow him when he leaves.
It is intersting that although Sid and Kamala have a passionate affair, Kamala coldly states that Sid does not love her "and yet you
do not love me, you love nobody. Isn't it so?"
"It might very well be so," Siddhartha said tiredly. "I am like you.
You also do not love--how else could you practise love as a craft?"
So cold Sid!!
And Sid never feels a need to follow Kamala, and does not really feel sadness when she dies. I don't know what Hesse is trying to say there. And it seems that Kamala loves Sid as she embraces him:
"But
after this, she had aroused him, and had tied him to her in the act
of making love with painful fervour, biting and in tears, as if, once
more, she wanted to squeeze the last sweet drop out of this vain,
fleeting pleasure. "
and in the nest few lines sid is looking at her and thinking she's old and ugly :
"Never before, it had become so strangely clear to
Siddhartha, how closely lust was akin to death. Then he had lain by
her side, and Kamala's face had been close to him, and under her eyes
and next to the corners of her mouth he had, as clearly as never before,
read a fearful inscription, an inscription of small lines, of slight
grooves, an inscription reminiscent of autumn and old age"
What do u think?
I am writing my bookreport about Siddhartha at the moment and while writing about his Beziehung... er, relationship with Govinda, Kamala and his son I came to think he really didn't love anyone. Why, I can't explain yet, but this I what I wrote about his sun:
Siddhartha had Govinda's love, had Kamala's love - but he didn't have the affection of his own sun. When his sun runs away, he talks of a burning in his heart and mistakes it for love. But it burns because he tried to win his suns love and failed. It feels different then his relation with Govinda and with Kamala, and therefor he concludes this must be love, but I believe it actually isn't.
I completely agree with Muteh about the exact meaning of the word love, though. Just because we have a certain image of how loving someone should be, doesn't make our truth the truth.
But I do believe Siddhartha will never care for anyone or anything as much as his own journey, his own searching for and finding Enlightment. The feelings he has for anything/one other than that, are #2. If this makes those feelings less real is the question. The really interesting question. I'm curious about your points of view!
I'm contradicted myself. But I guess that is a good thing.
Yes Siddhartha loves his son, as probably he loved his parents whilest he was still young himself. But as he sits near the opening of Kamala's "garden" for the last noted time he reflects his own life and later goes to mention that everything is one. Therefore everything is not just love, but it's also hate and nothing can exist without it. So again, I would have to say yes, Siddhartha had much love in his heart.
I agree here that there are different meanings of the word 'love'. This is reminiscient of the criticism Siddhartha makes about the use of words. On the one hand love could mean compassion in the fullest sense, or it could mean caring with all one's heart, or it could mean romantic/sexual love. While as an elightened being Siddhatha is full of pure compassion, the caring side of it is engulfed by his understanding of the river (this is hard to explain, but the gist is that you can never know how things will turn out), but the romantic side is part of the drama of human existance. It is not possible to gain englightenment while still clinging onto the dramas of human existance, since this involves rationalising emotions into the future, and thus the past. This does not allow you to live in the moment and be as the river.
To use the river analogy, you could see Siddhartha as a leaf on the river. His aim may be to reach the ocean, and he may wish other leaves the same fate, this is his compassion. However, he has realised his limits in controlling the universe and thus as a leaf he cannot control the movements of the other leaves to get to the ocean. In fact, by trying to control them he may send them in the wrong direction. This is his caring. He cannot attach himself to another leaf, because to do so he may stop himself, or the other leaf from reaching the ocean. Thus his compassion overwhelms any other type of love in order that he and others have their chance at attaining Nirvana.
I would add that the compassion you referred to it, it is 'pure' love..love without attachment, as the leaf can't control the movements of other leaf...Quote:
Originally Posted by Xnpio
we can't easily understand how love can be detached from caring, from possessing, from passion, from being at the side, from what we narrowed in our own perception...
love it is accepting, embracing reality (or ourselves or the other) as it/he/she/we/they come...even if it puts us apart from the one we love.
at the end he finally understands that true love is the one that let go, that allows, that accepts...not the idealized love he would had wished, or he thought would be best..love is an act of faith, of not belonging or possessing..an open feeling that we give with no expectations.
his son did exactly what he did to his father, he went searching for his own truth. he realized he was the father at this time and his son taught him something he has never considered before which was his father feelings when he left and disappear in the world. He understood the pain he caused to his father, and so (karma) he had to suffer the same dose of pain. But as his father did, he understood he should keep loving his child, allowing his child to choose his own path, as his father did to himself.
I believe this book it is about that, about the essence of life which is love. Unconditional love, or love without conditions. (love without 'if' or 'but' or 'cos')
love for the sake of love...
About the river analogy, I understand the analogy but I believe also it can be simpler than an analogy, it can truly be only the river itself, showing him what nature is capable of showing us when we actually look it... that everything requires patient, and its own time to happen, and it flows at its own course...for the more you try you can't control, as it is in life.
about the buddhist thing, the best definition I ever heard in buddhism:
'buddhism is a boat, a boat you use to cross the river.. the river that represents the dualistic understanding of life.. as you do the crossing you no longer need the boat nor buddhism.'
sorry for my english mistakes, it is not my first language I'm afraid...
all the best.
Hmm I don't believe he loves anyone person, I get the feel that he loves everyone as a part of the world as a whole. During his time with the ferryman he appreciates the natural world and sees value in everything, I mean the river has the strongest affect on him in his conquest for meaning. However in regards to the people around him, I believe what he loves is what they teach him. Siddartha finds value in all the knowledge he gets from the people he meets on his journey because it develops his overall love for all the parts of the world. The book is wonderful in regards to what it teaches the reader about the world.
I understood that Siddhartha loved the world once he reached enlightenment, not one thing or person. However, he had many earthly experiences that must have involved human love between two people such as Kamila and his son. These experiences brought him to a place of enlightenment. It was about the path of love that allowed him to see what the essence of what love really is.
Hi!
Yea! I think Siddhartha truly loves Kamala and very much attached to his son. However, author did not do justice to the female characters in this book; it hardly highlights Kamala's perspective in the story.
Currently reading a story, much resembling Siddhartha,.. "Gautama: a story of self realization is the name of the novel; The main character's name is Gautama, you know! He too walks out of his home in a search for self-realization. But, the author really does justice to her fiancée; she beautifully portrays her perspective in the story, may be, because, she herself is an woman.:iagree: