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In November, we are reading The Death of Ivan Ilych by Tolstoy.
Please post your comments and questions here.
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http://img.tfd.com/authors/tolstoy.jpg
In November, we are reading The Death of Ivan Ilych by Tolstoy.
Please post your comments and questions here.
Online Copy
Book Club Procedures
floating Kidney?
There is only one copy of this book in the Country libraries and it has gone missing. So I will try to see if I can find it at the local bookstore this weekend.
Meanwhile, I am reading Atonement *finally*.
I have not started yet. Perhaps next week.
Yeah, I know! This is the second time I've read it and I remember wondering the first time if we are supposed to take the illness literally or figuratively because seriously, floating kidney?! I checked the internet and found a medical paper from 1907 describing the condition of a floating kidney and it can be caused by trauma but it's not life threatening. I have often wondered though, in the case of Ivan Ilych, was this the real diagnosis? Or is the illness is just supposed to be a sort of figurative maligancy caused by the emptiness and falseness of Ivan's life or was the illness real but with emotional causes, not physical?Quote:
Originally Posted by papayahed
Like I said I have not started, but from when I first read it I thought the illness was a mysterious illness that no one could figure out. Things didn't make sense.
I was wondering if all that medicine contributed to his illness.
I read the novella a number of years ago for the second time. Death is far removed from us when we are young, but is something we get to experience with Ivan. We see the anxiety by those who care for him as authoritarian, detached and even condescending. His doctors would not tell him the truth. The were sorry and expressed pity which Ivan experiened as demeaning his condition.
Fortunately Ivan's his young servant performs all the necessary care when he can no longer take care of his needs himself. The young man treats him with a calm and dignified manner preserving Ivan from being made to feel embarrased. He is the only one who acknowledges that Ivan is dying and needs special care and it is this desire to ease the suffering that frees Ivan from the isolation of his suffering.
I was with my mother when she died and when I started to cry she said, "Don't make it any harder for me than it is." I didn't understand what she meant at that moment. But she was dealing with dying and didn't want to preform the motherly duty of caring for me. She was simply asking me to be there with her and to let her go.
I've read this book several times, and I love it. Don't pay attention to the injury, it is a mechanism to bring about a desired affect. Remember medicine was in its early stages, and little was known. Tolstoy is using the floating kidney as a vague mechanism with which to bring down Ivan Illyich in a prolonged and agonising manner.
You should focus on the events prior to his injury and after. Why does Ivan howl for days near the end? What is the motivator for this? If this book doesn't make you think, then no book will. I quit a miserable job and moved to the mountains to be a ski bum after reading this.
Oh and, long time no see... sorry been fixing myself up after an accident in New Zealand last spring...9 months of physical therapy and I am doing much better.
How do you like it? I found "Atonement" a pretty difficult read. It is nice to read it after Tolstoy's trilogy about his childhood because the main hero(Prince Dmitry Nekhludov, as far as I remember) plays an important role in "Youth" too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scheherazade
Finally started The Death of Ivan Ilych.
Initial comments: Tolstoy starts with the death in the first chapter so that he has taken a cicular form. The story starts with the death and goes through process of how he died. [Interestingly, Roth, did the same in Everyman.] And Tolstoy divides the work into 12 chapters, the twelve points of a clock, so that the circling back to the death mirrors the motion of time.
Another intersting observation from the first chapter. Ivan's closest work friend, and the one who feels the death the most is named Peter Ivanovich. He links Peter with Ivan by having the middle name of Ivanovich, which if I remember is derived from Peter's father's name, which must have been Ivan also. Any Russian expert out there who can confirm this? And does Ivan translate into John in English? Also, Peter is, and I don't think this is a coincident, the name of Christ's closest apostle, and the one who denied knowing Christ.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
Wow, I didn't even notice.
I think the last few lines of the story really interested me. Made me like the whole story - I'm not to crazy about that Ivan.
Not sure where you are going with the linking of Peter with Ivan. Ivan would be the equivalent of John. Many western nations use a middle name or christian name. Russia uses the Peter Ivanovich as a paternal name. It is a sign of closeness or familiarity with a person...to know their father's name.
Ok, back to why did you feel that there was a link to peter, and does it matter? Why does the name peter associated with Christ matter? Tolstoy was deeply spritual, but he wavers between his faith and his spirituality (see War & Peace)
Personally, I believe that what Tolstoy is trying to convey is more about life than death. Do you think ivan illych was satisfied with his life?
I'm not sure where I'm going either with it. It was just an observation, and it feels like it could not be a coincident. Not sure if it matters. The "Ivanovich" link feels more important than the "Peter" association. I read this novella many years ago, so I know the general plot. But it's been long enough to where I don't recall nuances. It may or may not matter. Let me read on.Quote:
Originally Posted by B-Mental
I haven't gotten that far. I'll get back to this when I get further..Quote:
Personally, I believe that what Tolstoy is trying to convey is more about life than death. Do you think ivan illych was satisfied with his life?
I have to admit that I've read the story several times, but last time was maybe 3 years ago, starting again to refresh my memory.