Please I Need Your Help

hi every one
my teacher is request from me discussion ((THE EXPLINTION))this poetry for john milton
the name of the poetry is
on shakespear..
but I can not do it..
can you help me,,<<<<<<<<< i will cry :( :( :(
because I do not speak good EnglisH I dont very well in it

On Shakespeare
What needs my Shakespeare for his honored bones
The labor of an age in piled stones?
Or that his hallowed reliques should be hid
Under a star-ypointing pyramid?
Dear son of Memory, great heir of Fame,
What need'st thou such weak witness of thy name?
Thou in our wonder and astonishment
Hast built thy self a livelong monument.
For whilst, to th' shame of slow-endeavoring art,
Thy easy numbers flow, and that each heart
Hath from the leaves of thy unvalued book
Those Delphic lines with deep impression took,
Then thou, our fancy of itself bereaving,
Dost make us marble with too much conceiving,
And so sepulchred in such pomp dost lie
That kings for such a tomb would wish to die



THANK YOU...

Sweety Pie--No one's going to do your assignment for you here, but I could help you out with particular lines or words that are really confusing you. Why don't you tell us what you have so far? You might want to write out for yourself what you think the poem is about, maybe even how you would put each line into everyday English, and note which words or phrases are really hard for you to understand. I'm sure that I, or others if I'm not around, can help you understand specific things that are getting in the way of you understanding the poem as a whole. If there's a lot that's confusing you, then just start by trying to understand the first four lines and asking questions about them.

hi -Petrarch's Love

ok.. I will analyse these 4 lines by my self ,but i need some one to correct my words and add more analysis .

What needs my Shakespeare for his honored bones
the poet says that his dear is shakespeare
there are aclose relationship between the poet and shkespear <<<< this clear in ( my Shakespeare )

The labor of an age in piled stones?
the poet says that the place doesnot respect the peaple whome dont command it
piled stones >>> it refers to a mess

Or that his hallowed reliques should be hid
and he asks what shakespear's (his bones after death)needs ? some stones or or agreat place

Under a star-ypointing pyramid?
under the bright star which is reflect the pyramid

what is mean by this word???
labor


i hope that it is agood deed
ALSO, i hpe to guid me to acorrect way to be better in English

Sweety Pie--OK, it looks like you're off to a good start. You have a sense of the main point of these first four lines, which is that Milton is writing about Shakespeare as a poet who Milton admires but is now dead and that Milton is basically asking what monument Shakespeare's bones need. You should be aware that they did not know each other in life (Milton was only about seven years old when Shakespeare died). Milton is addressing Shakespeare as someone who is dear and honored to him because of the poetry Shakespeare wrote.

There are a few things that you seem to need clarified. I can see the second line was a problem. First, the word "labor" you ask about means "work." The second line "The labor of an age in piled stones?" roughly means the work of an age (a long period of time) in stones being built up by being piled on top of each other. He is refering to a monument that people might spend a long time building in honor of the dead Shakespeare. The "piled stones" mainly refers to the act of building in which one stone is piled on top of the other. When you say it refers to "a mess" that is not the primary, or first, meaning of the words (he is not referring to something that actually looks like a mess), but you are right that it is part of what Milton is trying to say. By choosing to use the words "piled stones" to refer to the stones built on top of each other he is also giving a secondary, implied, meaning of the stones as being just a pile or a heap, or "a mess" as you say. This choice of words gets his point across that the impressive physical tombs and monuments people try to build are really as important as a pile of rocks. His question is a rhetorical one, meaning that he's not really asking for an answer to why Shakespeare might need these things but making a statement with a question: why would the dead Shakespeare need a bunch of stones piled up into a fancy tomb? Milton wants to suggest that the answer is that he doesn't need this. You got this in your summary of the third line.

One final point, in the fourth line, the "star-ypointing" pyramid refers to a pyramid pointing up toward the stars, or heavenward (ignore the "y" and just think of the word as "pointing." This is a very old kind of spelling that you'll never see in modern English). Let me know if you have questions about any of what I said above.

Very good. Now maybe you can move on to the next four lines. Do the same as you did before and think about where he is saying that Shakespeare's real monument should be? (Just give your best guess from what the lines are talking about).

"ypointing" - I have never seen that before or anything of the sort. How is it pronouced?

It is an archaic prefix, meaning 'exactly the same as'. The form was used poetically to add a much needed syllable in order to aid scansion. As far as I can tell, the y- is pronounced as ee.

Another example can be seen in Coleridge's Rime of the Ancient Mariner, "Her beams bemock'd the sultry main / Like morning frosts yspread."

Basically, just ignore the y- when reading it for meaning; add it when reading it aloud for scansion.

Just to add to what Xamonas has already said, in case anyone is remotely interested, the "y" on "ypointed" is a remnant of a common Old English prefix, "ge", which can serve more than one purpose, in some cases to mean "the same" or express relationship, as Xamonas points out, and with some verbs to express a notion of acheivement or past tense. For example, in Old English winnan means to fight, and gewinnan means to win. This prefix survived into Middle English (think Chaucer's time) as a "y" or an "i." In the sixteenth century certain poets, the most famous being Spenser, intentionally adapted this archaic prefix in their work as a part of reviving English poetry and looking back to Chaucer. Milton, who wrote in the seventeenth century, is archaically looking back at writers like Spenser who were archaically looking back to writers like Chaucer, so the "y" in Milton's poem seems to be more of a poetic affectation than anything else. It doesn't really fit with the available Old English or Middle English uses. Oh, and it is indeed pronounced something like a long "e" as Xamonas says.

hi every one
thank you very much ......Petrarch's Love :)
I realy interest on your words
...
ok I will complet the analysis

Dear son of Memory, great heir of Fame,
THE poet likens himself as ason of memory and agreat heir of fame

What need'st thou such weak witness of thy name?
he asks what shakespear needs? aweak witness on his fame ((his works ))?

Thou in our wonder and astonishment
he says that shakespear wondes us by his deeds and he is very wonder poet

Hast built thyself a livelong monument.*
For whilst, to th' shame of slow-endeavoring art,
here the poet says that he needs alot of effort and power to build this complet and immortal monument( his art) untill today and it is shame if he didn't do this hard endeavoring art

*there are akind of contrast between this line and the second linein the poem

Thy easy numbers flow, and that each heart
the number here refers to verse
( each heart) refers to men >>>> :( that is only what I understand :(

Hath from the leaves of thy unvalued book
the poet says that these papers are not valu or this book is not value

question... :confused:
I want to ask about this book ? IS IT refer to milton or shakespear??
do you mean by pointing pyramid that the fame of shakespear in heavenward??

about your (Q:where he is saying that Shakespeare's real monument should be?)
i think it should be in our minds and hearts through his great works >>>>> i hope it is right

thank you again :)

Sweety Pie-- First to address a question from last time:

Quote:

---

do you mean by pointing pyramid that the fame of shakespear in heavenward??

---

Milton is imagining a pyramid that might be built as another kind of physical monument or tomb after death. This pyramid would be pointing up toward the stars, or heavenward. Of course you're right that what Milton really wants to point toward in this poem is the fame of Shakespeare, but he isn't doing so directly in this line.

Now for the new stuff you've done. You seem to have the main idea, just a few corrections and extra info.

"Dear son of memory and heir of fame" refers to Shakespeare, not the poet himself. Milton is addressing Shakespeare here and associating him with memory and fame (whenever Milton says thee or thou or thy in the rest of the poem you can assume he is talking to Shakespeare). The muses (the mythological Greek figures believed to inspire art and poetry) were the daughters of memory, so calling Shakespeare "son of memory" associates him with the muses.

Quote:

---

What need'st thou such weak witness of thy name?
he asks what shakespear needs? aweak witness on his fame ((his works ))?

---

You have the literal meaning right. What you miss here is that this is a rhetorical question, like those I referred to above. This means that he is not asking for an answer really. He is making a statement with a question. "weak witness" is referring back to the piled stones of the monuments he discussed earlier. Milton is saying, why would you [meaning Shakespeare] need anything as weak as that as a witness (meaning a testament or memorial) for your name? The implied answer is that Shakespear does not need this "weak" memorial.

Quote:

---

Thou in our wonder and astonishment
he says that shakespear wondes us by his deeds and he is very wonder poet

Hast built thyself a livelong monument.*

*there are akind of contrast between this line and the second linein the poem

---

You've got half of the meaning for the seventh line. He is saying Shakespeare is a wonderful poet, but this line also is connected with the meaning of the eighth line. The thing you need to do is look at these two lines as one sentence "Thou in our wonder and astonishment/ Hast built thyself a livelong monument." To fit the poetry Milton has changed the word order around a little from how it would normally look. In everyday modern English he is saying "you have built yourself a livelong monument in our wonder and astonishment." So what he is saying is that our (meaning we the readers of Shakespeare's poetry) wonder and astonishment at his work is the place where Shakespeare has built himself a long lasting monument. The monument is in our wonder.
It is excellent that you note the connection between the ninth line and the second line of the poem.:)

Quote:

---

For whilst, to th' shame of slow-endeavoring art,
here the poet says that he needs alot of effort and power to build this complet and immortal monument( his art) untill today and it is shame if he didn't do this hard endeavoring art

---

This ninth line is not connected in meaning with the eight line as you have it. Notice there is a period after "monument" at the end of the eighth line, meaning that he has finished the thought that was in the seventh and eight lines. The ninth line starts a new thought which continues across several of the lines which follow it.

In the ninth line "Slow-endeavouring" means slow working or, slow attempting. It refers to other poets who work slowly. In the tenth line "Thy easy numbers flow" refers, just as you say to verse. Milton is saying to Shakespeare that Shakespeare's verse flows easily. So Milton is saying 'while slower working art (meaning slower poets and their work) is ashamed, you (meaning Shakespeare) have easy flowing verse.

The end of the tenth line "...and that each heart" refers back to the "whilst" of line nine, so it really means "and while each heart." You're right that "each heart" refers to men, specifically men who are reading Shakespeare's "book" (yes, the book is Shakespeare's).
The end of the tenth line really needs to be read along with the eleventh and twelfth lines to get the full meaning: "...and that each heart/ Hath from the leaves of thy unvalued book,/ Those Delphic lines with deep impression took"
Again, Milton has rearranged normal word order a little (this is something he does often, and makes his poetry difficult sometimes even for native English speakers to follow). These lines are saying, "and while that each heart has taken ("took") those Delphic lines with deep impression from the leaves of thy unvalued book." The hearts are taking the lines from the book, which leave a "deep impression."

A few tricky words and phrases in these lines: "unvalued" does not mean it has no value, but the opposite. More modern words for this are "invaluable" or "priceless," meaning that the book is so valuable that it is impossible to put a specific value or price on what it is worth. It is praising the book. "Delphic" refers to the Greek oracle at Delphi which was sacred for Apollo, the Greek god associated with poetry. Describing Shakespeare's lines as "Delphic" praises the poetry for being almost like the words of the God of poetry.
"impression" can mean a stamp or a mark, so saying the hearts take the lines "with deep impression" can mean the lines made a deep mark on the heart of the reader. It can also mean that the hearts were deeply impressed in the modern sense of the word, meaning that they were amazed or deeply affected.

Now maybe you can finish up by trying line thirteen to the end. These may be tricky lines. Keep in mind that there has not been a period at the end of line twelve, so line thirteen is continuing the sentence that began in line nine. Lines nine through twelve have set up what he comes to in line thirteen. the structure of the sentence is "while slow-endeavoring art is ashamed...and while each heart took...then..." Lines thirteen and fourteen will tell you what then. What has Shakespeare been doing while (at the same time as) these other things have been happening? Note that the semi-colon ";" makes a slight break between lines fourteen and fifteen, meaning they aren't as closely connected as thirteen and fourteen. So try reading thirteen and fourteen together and then fifteen and sixteen together.

Quote:

---

about your (Q:where he is saying that Shakespeare's real monument should be?)
i think it should be in our minds and hearts through his great works >>>>> i hope it is right

---

You have it exactly right! That is the main point of this poem. If you have got that then you are doing very well. Good work. :)

hello..
Iam sorry for my late on writing because Iwas busy...

ok I will complete..

Then thou, our fancy of itself bereaving,13
Dost make us marble with too much conceiving,
here our imagination of this works( shakespear's works ) is bereaved of real conception
because of the magic of his work that we cannot write as it
also, he make us marble >> refer to brightness and immortality by his work


And so sepulchred in such pomp dost lie
That kings for such a tomb would wish to die
here the tomb which shakespear is sepulchred has high value that even kings wish to die and be sepulchred as the same tomb of shakespear(( this means that shakespear has ahigh value even after his death through his work and all peaple wish to have as his reputation ))



is it ok ????

Hi Sweety Pie--I'd missed seeing this last post of yours. It all looks pretty good.
I can add a little to clarify your reading of lines 13 and 14.

Quote:

---

Then thou, our fancy of itself bereaving,13
Dost make us marble with too much conceiving,
here our imagination of this works( shakespear's works ) is bereaved of real conception
because of the magic of his work that we cannot write as it
also, he make us marble >> refer to brightness and immortality by his work

---

Line 13, again, has a funny word order so bereaving refers to "fancy." In other words, the line would mean "you, bereaving (taking away) our fancy (imagination) from itself," in other words Shakespeare is supplying such wonderful fancy that the readers' own imagination is beside itself with amazement. Just as you say, or imagination is bereaved of it's own fancy because his work is so magical. Line 14, you seem to get the idea. The important thing you don't note is that this is the place where the reader is turned into "marble" because of too much "conceiving" (this can mean either "understanding" or "experience of emotion"). Not only does the reader's understanding of Shakespeare's works amaze him/her so much that they are as imobile as stone. This is an important point because it is here that the reader is turned into marble so that the reader becomes the marble monument like the one described in the first few lines.

You have the last few lines just fine.

Congratulations on making it through a difficult poem. :) Best of luck in your studies.

hello

thank you very much .... Petrarch's Love:)
Iam realy grateful for you
you are so generous :)


thank you again :wave:

You're welcome. Glad I could help supplement the thinking you were doing on this poem. I hope you enjoyed the poem once you understood it better. Best of luck with your poetry reading. :)