Think about this...

They all seem to think that they have happiness. Well they do not truly know the meaning of happiness. How? In order to have true happiness, you must have a sad or down time. In BNW they have totally eliminated the sad part. All they have is happiness. So how are they soposed to know what true happiness is if they are happy all the time. They have no way of comparing whats good to whats bad. All they get is what's "good." I have reas this book, and im only 14. It is, by far, my favorite book yet. it makes you think about what America is coming to today.

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Originally Posted by Brittany

They all seem to think that they have happiness. Well they do not truly know the meaning of happiness. How? In order to have true happiness, you must have a sad or down time. In BNW they have totally eliminated the sad part. All they have is happiness. So how are they soposed to know what true happiness is if they are happy all the time. They have no way of comparing whats good to whats bad. All they get is what's "good." I have reas this book, and im only 14. It is, by far, my favorite book yet. it makes you think about what America is coming to today.

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Well, they do have those... I don't remember what they're called, but they're the controlled adrenal surges every month that make them feel angry/sad. And also, there are times when they will feel sad "by chance" which is what soma is for. They're not truly incapable of unhappiness, the social conditions just support happiness.

I think that they feel happy because for them happiness is what they are told that happiness is. So they can't feel sad, since they don't know what sadness is. That's my point of view.

I guess what Drat is suggesting is somewhat Orwellian. If memory serves me right in Orwell's 1984 removing such negative words (sad, pain....) were key to keeping the general population subdued. As we evolve as social beings, language probably limits or defines the scope of our thought. Hence modifying language may actually modify or even limit the way we can think, in case of BNW that would imply inability to think and feel sadness.

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Originally Posted by muazjalil

I guess what Drat is suggesting is somewhat Orwellian. If memory serves me right in Orwell's 1984 removing such negative words (sad, pain....) were key to keeping the general population subdued.

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Dead right.

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Originally Posted by muazjalil

As we evolve as social beings, language probably limits or defines the scope of our thought. Hence modifying language may actually modify or even limit the way we can think, in case of BNW that would imply inability to think and feel sadness.

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It doesn't work that way in reality, though, which is why people often have the gravest difficulty in describing their own mental illnesses. They may have no idea what's going on, but know that they feel "wrong" or ill.

I think in BNW, Huxley was trying to emphasise the perfection in result of the cloning process so that if someone felt depressed, it was a malfunction rather than a social issue.

I agree with you Atheist but just for argument's sake, if it were to be the case that our thoughts were limited by our knowledge of language then how would it have manifested itself? In micro level i guess people would have started thinking alike and probably on the macro level that would have manifested itself as a form of homogeneous culture or something!!

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Originally Posted by muazjalil

I agree with you Atheist but just for argument's sake, if it were to be the case that our thoughts were limited by our knowledge of language then how would it have manifested itself? In micro level i guess people would have started thinking alike and probably on the macro level that would have manifested itself as a form of homogeneous culture or something!!

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You'd end up with 1984!

I believe Huxley touches on this issue of lingual expression and thought. During John's discussion with Mustapha Mond, John has trouble expressing an idea. He says something about being incapable of articulating a particular thought. According to Brave New World, the existence of thoughts is not determined by having the language to express those thoughts. If you want to talk about communicating ideas, then that is a totally different argument.

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Originally Posted by Picard89

I believe Huxley touches on this issue of lingual expression and thought. During John's discussion with Mustapha Mond, John has trouble expressing an idea. He says something about being incapable of articulating a particular thought. According to Brave New World, the existence of thoughts is not determined by having the language to express those thoughts. If you want to talk about communicating ideas, then that is a totally different argument.

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Exactly right.

If there was a world where people are only happy and not unhappy they wouldn't have the minds which we have now. Their picture of the world would not be the picture we have and I don't think that they would be unhappy because they don't know what happiness is or is not.