Om

This is a continuation of my previous blog entry, when I ran out of space. You may start anywhere you like, of course, but I think it is more beneficial to follow the progress of my ideas in chronological order. Especially since Part 6 begins mid-paragraph. It is the continuation of the previous entry, not supposed to be divided here, as it was by chance.

[B][SIZE="3"]Part 6- Religion Continued[/SIZE][/B]

[B]Post 2047 Continued[/B]

[religion is the way to spirituality. "acknowledging the difference between good and bad is the first step on the path to Comprehension" - Karl Jaspers.]

So while it's wonderful to have this communication; it can be frustrating to meet someone who, if you listen to them, will cut your soul off from the nourishment of purity, knowledge, and virtue. You might say, well, if your soul is so nourished then why do you not fly away on its wing? It is a good point for the analogy, yet we know that we do not always have complete control over our spirituality. It might be easier if we did, yet you must realize that we cannot 'defeat' the whole world. If we are met with one person, with two, then they are perhaps a force more powerful than us; and when we are in such a situation it is like we are in an entire ocean, struggling for our existence. I'm sure you've read passages describing this in the Gita. Now, we can't destroy the world on our own. In the Gita and in Pure Land Buddhism as well as Christianity, it's emphasized that one relinquish trying to control the world, (in Pure Land Buddhism it says to do this after strecthing one's powers to their full), and accept the world, and focus on God. What I am saying is simply that we also need to acknowledge the difference between good and bad, that is, as it applies to the persons in our life, who affect us either by nourishing our soul, strengthening its wings to fly in knowledge and peace, or otherwise doing their best to bring us to the ground, and cut off our soul from all light, so that it will die on the ground.

[sources, ideas, equanimites.]

[quote="blazeofglory"]Nikolai, you are a prolific reader and you have indeed a very big mass of knowledge. Indeed it is good to acquire knowledge and of course through books or others' ideas we can broaden our repertoire of knowledge.You have read the Gita and some of the great classics.

I too read as far as I can. I feel they broaden the horizon of knowledge indeed and they did in fact. Yet I have some reservation regarding knowledge. Knowledge at times stand ad a burden and of course it enlightens but at times it kind of leads us to a state of more confusion.

I know through your posts you have your own voice and I like that very much.
In fact one can draw upon varieties of sources yet one should have one's own opinions and ideas about things.

In fact I believe that spirituality is a pathless land and no branches of philosophy can guide us to it. No education, no knowledge can open the gate of it.

Spirituality has more to do with living. Living not by ideals, for ideologies clash
with one another.

I said somewhere that as far as spirituality is concerned I stand by the belief that man is not superior even to animals. Indeed books of religions oppose this notion, yet they too suffer limitations and are bound by some borderlines.

I do not think reading a particular sacred book makes one spiritual. Rather it is the way of living.

Nikolia, my ideals are equanimities. I know this is a very arduous course, yet I am trying. I do not like to assault or assail anybody both verbally and physically.

I do not like to be judgmental of things. I can not say I am right and you are wrong at all. For you have been conditioned in particular ambiance an I am in another. You live by one set of values and I by another. Values may clash, ideals may clash and misunderstandings or disputes may arise between us. In fact we never fight but our belief systems do. Therefore i\I am never judgemental of all that you say.

I try to understand about the base of your understanding, how you acquired certain pattern of thinking.

Even a sinner too is not guilty for it is his environment or the software that was installed or fed into him. Indeed we are clean of all ideals and therefore I do not like to criticize anybody just on an ideological ground.

I can not say I am a superior being just because I got a particular educational background. Maybe I could have been a murderer or any great commiters of sins, and it is the environment that shapes our course of living and that is why I am not critical of anyone[/quote]

[B]Post 2052[/B]

[deconstructionalist - progress. truer reality of being, the object of knowledge of transcendence, the place of spirituality in a material world.]

It was good you said to be deconstructionalist. This is necessary before we can make further progress towards understanding. I believe rather strongly in something which is difficult to put into words. In almost every conceivable way, this world is an illusion, and there is a world of truer being. Be this God, or extinction, I have seen it and it really shattered my mind, and so now I have just an idea of this-- that what I experienced has again become an object, and I know I am not situated in this knowledge, it is now what I strive for in meditation. It is the transcension of this material world into the spiritual. Everything else-- all other knowledge about, well, knowledge-- knowledge about knowledge! Get this! All of it, anyway, is material, and all of it pertains to the material world. When there are words about transcension, well, they are written down on a material page, and are viewed as an object by me, the subject, which does not currently understand them and take their meaning to my heart, who is still bound in this world. So I try to go from the bad to the good. And then with knowledge I realize that my visions tell me, in the other world, what we do is beyond good and bad. In defining the self, it is a very, very lofty and complicated thing. When I observe myself, I actually allow myself to see myself as I truly am, although I cannot or perhaps could not express it in ten thousand words. But when I allow myself to see myself as I truly am, I know that is indeed different, completely different from all of my former material conceptions. As I try to realize my self, I simply try to break into the other world, and make progress on the spiritual path to the Supreme.

[B][SIZE="3"]Part 7- Philosophy[/SIZE][/B]

[the next post is from a different thread, back to God or Chaos?]

[quote="crazefest456"]...Yes, the truth of mind should be sublime because God, when creating us, breathed his spirit into the human 'container'...I guess that's why humans can have this mystic relationship with the creation-- how we could cure ourselves with our will power, and the "aura" B-Mental was referring to. I'm not saying that we have a divine relationship with God, I mean, we are his creation and that's it. But the actual truth might just be beyond us, that we (normally) just keep chasing the semblance of truth...I guess that's why I believe in immortality of the universe (not neccesarily the physical one, I mean the extra-dimensional universes...yay, time travel! ). I guess we're always taught to chase the 'deeper' meaning in literature, that we forget the somewhat bigger picture.[/quote]

[B]Post 2412[/B]

[correct thinking is invaluable.]

I don't think truth is beyond us; even if we have very limited knowledge, if we think correctly, which is the most tricky thing, then we can know the truth. The problem is that we don't ever get to where we think correctly all the time. Fortunately it is entirely possible to do this. But it's not easy. Anywho the truth is often discarded, it's often set aside for something more comfortable. But if you view the truth with correct thinking, then it will actually take you beyond anything.

[Fichte tells us our vocation is to act, not merely to know. in the end truth will prevail-- the soft over the hard, the water's victory over the rock, in erosion. withdrawing from engagement.]

Oh, I remember now something that was going through my mind thinking about these things. In the third book to "The Vocation of Man," "Faith," Ficthe describes how our vocation is not merely to know, but to do. Kind of interesting. But I think if we really know, then what that knowledge tells us is that we do not need to save everyone. In The Brothers Karamazov Father Zosima says that we are all responsible for everyone else. This is true, but it's also true that we are not responsible for everyone else. Can't we be free of guilt or is there an obligation to engage in battle for the truth? I mean metaphorically. I've sort of got the impression that truth will prevail, in the long run; and we should write books and things, but it's probably wrong to...engage in debates and stuff. How does it help?

[comparing of philosophy.]

I don't know if any of this is useful or interesting. I'm glad to help you with ideas that will give you strength. Knowledge should give us strength, after all. A lot of my ideas are influenced by the thinking of Plato, Jaspers. Jaspers says that in philosophy, we have not gone higher than Plato. This is interesting and possibly true; but then it's wrong to say one philosophy is higher than another. For instance I could rate my own ideas higher than Plato, and this would be fair and true, because if I did so, it would be true to me, but therein lies the vulgarity and falseness of it. We shouldn't use the knowledge that everything is a state of mind to believe things that aren't true, and rate one thing higher than another, but to progress in real knowledge towards real truth. Now, the ideas that I have are very similar to Plato's, and the reason I can't compare my philosophy to his, is that I don't know how well he fully realized his own philosophy. After all, as he himself says, that is the point of philosophy, and that's how you might judge it. But the ideas that there's a truth, which is a higher being, those I share.

[a question for Jaspers.]

I talked about it a little on the other thread-- defining the self, just now, too. Jaspers talks about it, too, and he talks about how different truths affect different people, and he sort of asks; "If I have this knowledge of truth, then why is it still insufficient for me, why do I still long to be a part of worldly things?" And I think all I can reply to this is that he is forgetting that what he sees is truth, which means that the rest is not truth.

[there is no reason to worry over passing phenomena which do not affect us if we disentangle from them, and make progress on a different plane.]

...realizing ourselves is abstract. As for independence, everyone is unique. As for being worried, there's no reason to be worried, but perhaps there's less reason to be worried over being worried. I don't know if I'm making any sense or helping at all. As for asking God, I don't really know how to put this but I think we ourselves have to take ourselves to God. In Hinduism a lot of emphasis is placed on this; although a lot is also placed on finding a bona fide guru, or spiritual master. The spiritual master is supposed to be taken as an authority, although I don't see the same importance they do on this. But does that make any sense how I say that, that we have to take ourselves to God? As far as praying goes, I don't think I've really seen it described anywhere what I've found to be so great. In the Gita, it talks extensively about it all, and it's good, but not quite what I've found. Still, the way they describe it in words is similar to what I believe. There is something very, very special in aiming one's heart and mind towards the Godhead, and in this I believe is the quickest route to spirituality, to the Godhead, and to reality. I believe with all my heart that the reality of God is higher, and truer, than everything we know. I believe this because I've seen it, and I know that I don't, or haven't, made this knowledge manifest, but that's what I would like to work towards.



[B][SIZE="3"]Part 8- Prayer[/SIZE][/B]

[quote="blazeofglory"][B]Does God want us to pray?[/B]

This is indeed a very harrowing and irksome question. We are free thinkers and as such there is no boundary or limit set to us and our imaginative flights can take greater heights and indeed we do not choose to be incarcerated within sets of ideas.

That we are created by God; that we all originate from Him; that he is almighty; that this universe is the manifestation of his colossal being; that all of us are his progenies are notions we all kind of choose to pivot on in point of fact.

We know he is above commendation and condemnation. Then he is no entity of vanity and has no carnal desires the rest of us suffer from. He is indeed above approval and disapproval. In essence he is above all attributes. Yet why do we try to make a correlation between two opposing forces love and hate.

Why should our prayers please him and our insolence offend him?

We human beings rationalize things and try to confine God within our limits of understanding or values or set standards. We try to lock up him in a captivity of our knowledge. Is he not big hearted to see all us mortal’s salutations eulogies or adulations to be subjected to moods/

Does God simply help those who flatter him? Or become very vexed with those who are apathetic to those who do not cajole?

I am not kind of an advocate of Spirituality and materiality but such questions pop up and I can not ignore them. I do not whether these ideas are corrupting me or opening a bigger gate to truth.

I want all to have their own ideas across which I believe will take us close to truth if not to truth.[/quote]

[B]Post 2479[/B]

[the teaechings of the world are false metaphysical abstracts, which do not exist in relation to the physical or spiritual reality of my body-- all of which are still part of the phenomena perceived by the senses.]

The reasons I pray can be broken down as follows. I observe myself, my corpereal form, and I know that this puts the lie to wordly, vain, vulgar, knowledge.

[observing my corpereal form, I see that my form is spiritual in nature.]

I observe myself and see that my destiny is spirituality, is heaven, is an abstract realization through the light of God.

[non-duality is a form of non-existence. if I exist only in passing, then I do not exist at all. if I have an existence, it is an eternal one. therefore the passing phenomena do not affect my essence.]

My insight and realizations all point towards non-duality. Observing my corpereal form puts the lie to worldly knowledge, and shows my destiny of spirituality-- my insights into the differences between being and material engagement show me both that as all these phenomena are passing, thus they do not exist in relation to the eternal, and also that my true nature is not limited by time or space.

[the progression of philosophy under the light of true ideas has brought me to this understanding of the passing phenomena in relation to the eternal reality.]

The progression of philosophy under the guidance of true ideas has brought me to the understanding of God as the source of goodness and reality, as the Godhead. Blaze, you know more than you think you do, and if you can clear off misperceptions, you'll be at one with the Godhead.

[God as the benchmark and source for a more real being, as the benchmark as the source for our transcendence, our realization, our light, our love, and our peace and our growing.]

It is entirely true that we are given what we ask for, be it beauty, truth, knowledge or peace, so if you want peace, and you want knowledge, these will be given you if you pursue them, but you must take yourself there, and be carried by unremitting faith and devotion. Only then can you stand up, when you've always been submerged, and only then can you climb out of ignorance, and soar. When you get there, when you arrive at this truth, you must trust yourself, when you hear yourself saying that you cannot forget this. This is, as described in Hinduism, progress made towards the Supreme.

[our given insight tells us God is true. our given insight tells us the sensed phenomena is not real. to have faith in God is thus sanity, is thus faith in the real reality, which comes at such a difficulty, but gives us the strength to be unalloyed by material engagements.]

What does prayer mean? It means to pray, we could say to ask for God. But it is nothing without faith and devotion. You must have faith in God, and you must let this guide you into eventually having faith in yourself. This is very important, because you can attain the Supreme, it is possible. And when you attain the source, you will have already progressed beyond not having faith in yourself. You must trust yourself to have faith in yourself.

[prayer and yoga are the path and link to the supreme. breathing is a fundamental, basic form of yoga, and also a link to the supreme. our path to attainment takes us into the higher regions, and our link to God is our link to reality. but we must fully intake and internalize prayer and yoga before we can use these to make progress towards our goal.]

Prayer is useless without already possessing the knowledge, or without a teacher who can guide you into the knowledge; and with these things, you still must be willing to accept true knowledge, and accept faith in God and yourself. Now when all of these things have been considered and internalized, then faith and prayer become means for the spiritual realization in the light of God. It becomes the path to the Supreme, and to the source-- the path to reality. I have to go now, so I guess i'll come back ot his later.

[quote="blazeofglory"]There are indeed very subliming points in your post. I agree there are some points, very appropriate points of course. I believe prayer has power and if not top help link with the Cosmic soul at least it makes our mind very sublime. It certainly transcends our mind and I have no nuances of doubt in this. I also prayed much in my babyhood sometimes even hours and hours. I had moments I simply cornered myself to a room and engaged in prayer. I have undergone subliminal experiences. I am fully and certainly in-dubiously convinced of the power of prayer.

Yet I have something different to say. We often believe that God is powerful and almighty and he is the ultimate power beyond the creation of the universe and indeed something subtle that is beyond the Copernican' ideas of the universe and Darwinian theory of evolution or natural selection.

If God is so why does he need prayer? Can not he be kind to us without prayer? If we are his progenies why should he need applauses after all. He must be indifferent to both attributes, both, tributes or insults.

God is a process, not a thing the way we rationalize it. It is not a He or a She. It is not a thing or subject. It is just a phenomenon, an energy-source . This is what I understand if I happen to believe in God.

God, understanding him through this concept is neutral to all our attributes. Prayer has little to do with God despite convention coerce us to make prayer.[/quote]

[B]Post 2480[/B]

[God does not need our prayers.]

If you read my post again, and carefully, you might see more than you saw the first time. When you say that God is "Just an energy source", you may be missing that He is not just an energy source, he is actually the source of reality, and all of our thinking-- God is reality, a more true reality. Now we have freedom of choice, and I do not mean to coerce anyone, nor do I think anyone should be: I am very much against this. I'm only trying to present my view as clearly and intelligbly as possible. No, God does not "need" our prayers-- no more than nature needs our ideas. Or maybe that is not a perfect analogy. I don't think that I have perfect knowledge of this, but I do think that prayer is a process or path by which we attain the Supreme. When we attain the Supreme, or source, I conjecture we will be at peace with a knowledge which makes everything we have known previously seem very superfluous. As, because the phenomena is passing, therefore it doesn't exist in relation to the Supreme.

[God is not affected by our prayers.]

Anyway, God, being the source of goodness, and the source of reality, is certainly not affected by our prayers. Prayer is a path for attaining the Supreme, or the abstract realization through spirituality. And if we do not consider these lofty regions to be our destination, then we at least are calmed by prayer, and it has healing benefits; but these benefits are but a shadow of what we ought to be doing with it. It is like insecurities which keep us from settling down, from being still. We are insecure and have no idea of how to progress forward, of how to look at things, of what is true, of what is, of what should be.

[prayer serves us best when we know what is true.]

And all of this is not necessarily magically "solved" by prayer, but if we don't know what is true, then prayer only benefits us at half-capacity, so to speak...

[SIZE="3"][B]Part 9- Path to Truth or God[/B][/SIZE]

[the endless and tiresome journey.]

[quote="blazeofglory"]I know my journey is endless; I want to press forward leaving footprints in the sands of time. I am a speck no doubt yet have a feeling and am trying to connect with the infinite. I cannot remain stagnant and unversed in what goes on around, scientifically, spiritually and philosophically. I can not terminate the journey, this eternal journey, staying at rest, for I am a man, and mannishness, not an inversion of womanishness, is what defines me. And this restiveness is what sets me in perpetual motion to explore into the outer and inner domains, but what we call outer and inner are my own projections. This cosmos extends and expands infinitely is external to me and the same keeps on contracting and gets confined to my own existence. It can not go beyond me. Everything is my own expansion and contraction. God exists because I exist and God can not have an existence of its own bereft of me.

Indeed life is an enigma, and I always wonder at things I see, the ever expanding cosmos, and the littleness of me in this expanse universe. I wonder as to why I am here and why do I do what I do. The fact that I am a mortal and that whatever I do, what great works get carried our by me is unsubstantial and subject to destruction, also torments me. Should I take comforts in science or solace in spirituality? I am unsure indeed, for both ends can not satisfy or answer some of the questions for which I am always seeking answers.

I read, and write, and debate, for I am not content with making a living or I am after something all my ancestors seeking and this generation too is perpetuating. Man by nature wonders at phenomena at sight and he cannot proceed the way his counterparts, animal beings do, content with eating and breeding. Maybe that is why he is more stressed, and advanced today and triumphed over natural forces.

Indeed endless questions crop up in my mind, and I cannot stay quiet without giving expressions to my thoughts. That is why I am here to communicate ideas across, and this gives me shades of contentment. I do not know whether or not I arrive at truth thorough this journey, yet this is an adventure I can not do away with.[/quote]

[quote="Lote-Tree"]What Truth do you seek?

Do you wish to know Truth of how hot the sun burns?

Or how deep is the Ocean?


Is it something else?


By your avatar I would assume you don't seek that. You seek a truth that goes beyond language and ideas and the imagination itself?

Then you should join the Shadus, the Sufis, the Kabalists, the mystics...

You will not find anything here...[/quote]

[B]Post 2521[/B]

[truth puts the lie to all non-truth. being with no labels exists before language attaches labels. labels will always be labels, and being will always be being.]

It makes sense that you would say " a truth that goes beyond language, or imganation itself" for this is only possible if our imagination is bound by our language. It is not the most imaginative thought to disregard language...or devalue it... as not depicting events, reality, accurately. For instance the idea of cosmic enlightenment. It is not beyond our imganation, it is simply an idea which we pursue; one which exists outside of time. It is not beyond abstraction, it is the absence of abstraction. There is no time for the tree. A tree does not comprehend itself with abstraction, in fact, there is no "It" to the tree, it simply is it. The same thing with ourselves---- we are ourselves, despite whatever delusions we hold about our identity. To say-- "I am a man," would be false, it would be based on NOTHING, yet to say the opposite would be deemed ridiculous, insane, it would be spurned, shunned, and ignored.

The truth, Blaze, is very simple, yet it takes years to get there. Consider the Zen master who said to his student, "The essence of your mind is not born yet, so it will not die." My interpretation of this is based on Buddhist wisdom, which states that the essence of the mind does not exist.

[Tai Chi and yoga are aides on the path to the absolute. Tai Chi is, in fact, a philosophy dealing with the nature of the universe, and the nature of change.]

My answer to you, Blaze, is that you should keep doing what you are doing, and further, take up yoga and Tai Chi. Tai Chi will strengthen your body and your mind, and will purify your body like yoga. But I wouldn't simply say this and leave you there, I'll say keep working towards the truth. Try to figure out how to make progress, how to climb towards higher states, towards more real being. Figure out what this means for you. Always ask questions, but more importantly, do away with misconceptions. The Gita is one of the highest valued sources of wisdom in the world, but it is obviously not satisfying you. I mean, it is good that you wish to seek new sources, higher or equally high, but the problem....the Gita is already the highest, and the new sources are there, but you must know what you want, in fact, the problem rests as it always does in ourselves. You are a sensitive and intelligent soul, Blaze, I recognzie that in you and it will not let you be satisfied with anything less but the highest standards... yet you still wish to pursue the truth. Some day you will come to study Pure Land Buddhism, and some day years later you will fully absorb the meaning of it. You must strive all of your self, but eventually you must let go of striving, and actually when we let go of it, and call to the Other Shore, to Amida Buddha, then it becomes real for us. Does this make sense? So the only thing souls like you and I can really do, Blaze, is strive for the Other Shore, in terms of the Pure Land, or strive for progress of the absolute, as in Hinduism. Blaze, it is so much easier to attain the higher planets when you have someone who is there who can help guide you. Yet the state is so precious only because it is so rare, which makes it difficult to find. But if you find such a person, and I hope you do, then together you can support each other in your journey, you can nourish each others' souls with the richest treasures, with the purest love, and nourish each others' minds and ideas with the most cutting wisdom. You and I have done this some, and I am sorry that I haven't been as active as I should be in cultivating our friendship. In fact, there are no words to describe this kind of progress. We can't say-- Ah, I was precisely here, and now I am here; at least if we said this it wouldn't be taken or understood. Fortunately there are other things we can talk about, like yoga, meditation, Gods, spirituality, heaven, the higher planets, and by means of language we can share our meaning. I ask you, what do you know is true? Do you agree that you know true ideas are true? This is something I believe and live by. My learning and discovery has pointed me towards God as the true reality, in many, many, many different ways. Nothing that I think is true disagrees with this. And there are certain things everyone agrees upon, which are very important, such as letting go of anger-- that is a very important one. If we can release thoughts of anger, then we banish hatred for all time. That is one of the early verses in the Dhammapadda. Yet if we are not able to banish anger, then we do not make so much progress, we may come to a certain level of happiness or maturity, but then just like a roller coaster we are suddenly making backwards progress. So, make progress, learn, strengthen, be honest and true to yourself and those you call friend, banish anger, and then find a way to make progress of the absolute, which you will not lose. This is the path to truth.

[B]Post 2538[/B]

The influences on my conception of God are numerous, but enlightening were Plato and the Bhagavad Gita. Plato talks of the God and the Soul very, very eloquently, usually in metahpor; for instance his metaphor of the soul being a charioteer, with two horses.

Many do personify God, but many also consider Him the Source of being, and of goodness and what is good and true in our thinking-- this is from Plato. I believe there is not just one God, but also Gods, whose covenant is more real, more solid, than anything else. I think They give gifts as well... not only when we make covenants with them, but also that as soon as we understand a truth about Them, They reveal their presence in a small way...I consider this a miracle of knowledge... and anyway, when we pray and commit ourselves to God, it is committing to a higher and more true or real reality, and it is the highest thing to make progres on this path, the path to God, the Source, the absolute; and further it is entirely possible to achieve the absolute. I believe our destinies are spiritual, and we are heaven-bound. The goal that God sets for us is self-realizatin in His light, although by this I do not mean so much that he has been personified... anyyhow, furthermore, to realize or actualize, this is not so much an abstraction, but an absence of one...although it is understand the rather abstract idea of non-duality. In the Source all duality is transcended, and also there is no time. When the Source has been achieved, true reality has been perceived; and every time we communicate and connect or link to God, we are shown, revealed, the non-existence of the phenomena we perceive through or senses to be our immediate reality. It is rather difficult to understand, but becomes simple once we do, that the fact that phenoma is passing, does mean in fact that it doesn't exist. This is very important...important to making progress towards a more real form; Plato's allegory of the cave nailed this point very well, and is also important to making progress!! Anyway, that is my opinion.


...Okay, that's all I have! I've tried to write everything out as clearly as possible, thanks for your time and interest.