Memories of the 28th Century

Interesting thoughts

Those are some very interesting thoughts. I do like the idea that monotheism does by its very nature (only accepting a singular god) breed single-mindedness. Because I do think that when one is of a polytheistic nature and thus is able to acknowledge that multiple different gods exist it makes for an easier acceptance that thus other gods than the ones you believe in may also exist.

Among certain polytheistic groups in fact when they did travel into foreign lands to conquer or raid feared their own gods would not have the power to help them when they were in another groups territory and that they would be at the mercy of the foreign gods of the people they have gone to make war against.

When the Romans attacked the Celts they did in fact also go after the Celts religious beliefs, and had the druids slaughtered and tore down and destroyed places which were sacred to the Celts and icons of Celtic gods. Historically the Romans were accepting of the religions of the people they conquered and allowed their conquered subjects to continue to practice their own religion, but they found something about the Celtic religion to be particularly offensive. So though their main motivation for attacking the Celts was not religious, they did end up attacking their religion.

And in Ancient Egypt there was a rebellion that revolved around religion. Ra had been worshiped as being the most important of the Egyptian gods, but Amunhotep was a worshiper of Amun, and when he become Pharaoh he sought to put Amun above Ra and wanted the people to become worshipers of Amun. So they did fraction off into groups between followers of Amun vs followers of Ra. But that was a fight about which of their own gods they thought was more important, opposed to actually attacking another culture based upon what gods they worshiped.

Yes, thae idea that one nations Gods might be local was a common fear, but it is completely unfounded.

I also thought about the attempts to eliminate the Druids, but it was my understnding that it was not for religous reasons, but because the Druids had so much power. The ROmans thought that dealing with the kings would be easier. I will look into this again. I would find it strange if the Romans hated the Celts' religion, because it was quite like the Roman religion.

The Egyptian religious civil war was rather unusual. I don't recall the details, but wasn't Amun worshipped in parallel with the other Gods and Goddesses? It was also my understanding that it was a culture war that was most clearly seen through thee religious preferences. understood that.

I'm not sure I buy that polytheists don't war over religion, given Horatius's motive for holding off the invaders (as reported by MacCauley):

Then out spake brave Horatius,
The Captain of the Gate:
'To every man upon this earth
Death cometh soon or late.
And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his gods.....

Good point, but they weren't fighting about religion. The war was about who was going to dominate the Apennine Peninsula (or the central part anyway), which culture would prevail, and whose ancestors would be treated with respect.

What greater honor is there than to defend one's home and culture. That is what Horatius said. The Romans followed some of the same Gods as the Etruscans did. Apparently both nations had moved there from Asia Minor, the Etruscans several hundred years earlier, and the Romans a few generations earlier.

Originally Posted by PeterL

Yes, thae idea that one nations Gods might be local was a common fear, but it is completely unfounded.

I also thought about the attempts to eliminate the Druids, but it was my understnding that it was not for religous reasons, but because the Druids had so much power. The ROmans thought that dealing with the kings would be easier. I will look into this again. I would find it strange if the Romans hated the Celts' religion, because it was quite like the Roman religion.

The Egyptian religious civil war was rather unusual. I don't recall the details, but wasn't Amun worshipped in parallel with the other Gods and Goddesses? It was also my understanding that it was a culture war that was most clearly seen through thee religious preferences. understood that.

It may be true that the killing of the druids had in part to do with power but it is also a fact that the Celtic religion was one of the only religious beliefs the Romans did not tolerate. They actively sought to crush the Celtic religion, which is not something they had done in other people they conquered. There is something about the Celtic religious practices the Romans seemed to fine particularly vile. I think part of it had to do with Roman claims of human sacrifice in the Celtic tradition which the Romans found truly barbaric, though there is a lot of differing theory among historians if the Celts truly practiced human sacrifice or not. It would not be surprising if they did, but some claim there is no real evidence to support such a claim.

In regards to the Egyptian war, it is a very complicated situation, the Egyptians had a complicated religious system. It is true that Amun was worshiped along with other gods, but there are also claims among some historians that Amunhotep was proposing a sort of monotheism in which Amun would be principally worshiped, but it was indeed a very complex issue with many different facets to it, but religion certainly did play a role in it.

Originally Posted by Dark Muse

It may be true that the killing of the druids had in part to do with power but it is also a fact that the Celtic religion was one of the only religious beliefs the Romans did not tolerate. They actively sought to crush the Celtic religion, which is not something they had done in other people they conquered. There is something about the Celtic religious practices the Romans seemed to fine particularly vile. I think part of it had to do with Roman claims of human sacrifice in the Celtic tradition which the Romans found truly barbaric, though there is a lot of differing theory among historians if the Celts truly practiced human sacrifice or not. It would not be surprising if they did, but some claim there is no real evidence to support such a claim.

In regards to the Egyptian war, it is a very complicated situation, the Egyptians had a complicated religious system. It is true that Amun was worshiped along with other gods, but there are also claims among some historians that Amunhotep was proposing a sort of monotheism in which Amun would be principally worshiped, but it was indeed a very complex issue with many different facets to it, but religion certainly did play a role in it.

I'm not saying that you are wrong, but the idea that the Romans did not tolerate the religion of the Celts is at odds with the fact that the religion of the Celts survived the Roman period, 500 years or more. The Romans had plenty of time to stamp it out completely, if they were so inclined. Do you have any good sources for that. The Celtic religion eventually subbumbed to the onslaught of CHristianity, but that didn't finish its work until long after Rome fell.

I just looked around the internet a little, and I found no sign that the Romans had tried to destroy the Celtic religion. The impression that I got is that the Celts did not have great religious buildings, and they did not write books, so the stories were oral, and the stories were messed up over the centuries.

Originally Posted by PeterL

I'm not saying that you are wrong, but the idea that the Romans did not tolerate the religion of the Celts is at odds with the fact that the religion of the Celts survived the Roman period, 500 years or more. The Romans had plenty of time to stamp it out completely, if they were so inclined. Do you have any good sources for that. The Celtic religion eventually subbumbed to the onslaught of CHristianity, but that didn't finish its work until long after Rome fell.

I just looked around the internet a little, and I found no sign that the Romans had tried to destroy the Celtic religion. The impression that I got is that the Celts did not have great religious buildings, and they did not write books, so the stories were oral, and the stories were messed up over the centuries.

As already mentioned there is the Roman assault against the Druids, and while that may have had other reasons than religion, concentrating attacks upon important religious personages is not something which the Romans had done to other people they have conquered. And after the Druids had been either all destroyed, of fled into the forests to escape Druidisim was outlawed in Britain during the time of the Roman rule. Groves considered sacred to the Celts were also burned and destroyed and this was done as part of their attack against the Druids to try and discourage Druids and drive them away.They focused attacks upon areas of which they knew were held as particularity important to the Druids. And the Romans did attempt to actually convert the Celts to their own religion.

In Julius Caesar's writings about Gaul he brags about the Celts reverence and worship for the Roman gods.

But the Celts did continue to worship their own gods alongside the Roman gods as well.

So during the period of Roman rule the Celts still did continue to practice their own beliefs, but it was frowned upon by the Romans. The Druids were the important religious leaders of the Celtic people, and they were outlawed during the time of the Roman rule, and the Roman's did attempt to introduce their own religion to the Celts, as well as the Romans had destroyed sites which were held as sacred to the Celts.

Originally Posted by Dark Muse

As already mentioned there is the Roman assault against the Druids, and while that may have had other reasons than religion, concentrating attacks upon important religious personages is not something which the Romans had done to other people they have conquered. And after the Druids had been either all destroyed, of fled into the forests to escape Druidisim was outlawed in Britain during the time of the Roman rule. Groves considered sacred to the Celts were also burned and destroyed and this was done as part of their attack against the Druids to try and discourage Druids and drive them away.They focused attacks upon areas of which they knew were held as particularity important to the Druids. And the Romans did attempt to actually convert the Celts to their own religion.

In Julius Caesar's writings about Gaul he brags about the Celts reverence and worship for the Roman gods.

But the Celts did continue to worship their own gods alongside the Roman gods as well.

So during the period of Roman rule the Celts still did continue to practice their own beliefs, but it was frowned upon by the Romans. The Druids were the important religious leaders of the Celtic people, and they were outlawed during the time of the Roman rule, and the Roman's did attempt to introduce their own religion to the Celts, as well as the Romans had destroyed sites which were held as sacred to the Celts.

Julius called the Celtic Gods by the names of the corresponding Roman Gods, and tat was a common practice among Roman writers; although there were others who used the Celtic names.

It appears that the Romans tried to wipe out the Druids, especially in Britain. Many Druids were killed, and the main place of the Druids on Anglesey was captured and destroyed, but it appears that the Romans did not attack the religion of the Celts, except to put the teachers and magicians (the Druids) out of action. The Druids were a large part of the defense against the Roman invasion of Britain.

I don't know for sure, but the matter of human sacrifices reads like propaganda against the Druids, but I don't know, and there appears to be some evidence in archeology and in magic that the Druids sometimes practiced human sacrifice, and that continues into recent times.