Deity

[Ickmeister]

What do you guys think about Jesus's deity. I personaly think he was separate from God while he was on earth because He always had to pray and ask for power before he did stuff. Well maybe not always, but for big stuff.

[Chardata]

Jesus prayed to God inorder to be an example for us. Yes, he was human but he was not dissconnected from God...at least not until the time he was crucified. One of the prayers Jesus started out with was, Lord I know that you have ALWAYS heard me but i do this inorder to be an example... And like I always say...ask Shea for exact references! Sorry Shea...you're just too good at that! :P

[imthefoolonthehill]

if we are to go Biblically (theologically) then Jesus was the son of God and was a (the) Diety.

Personally, I agree with the Bible on this issue... if Jesus was not God, then he would not have been sinless. If He was not God, His death on the Cross would have no meaning for us.

[Shea]

The first 14 verses of the Book of John are the best for explaining this.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Note in verse 1 where it says 'the Word was God' and then in verse 14 where it says 'the Word became flesh and dwelt among us'. He also was the light that John bore witness of. And this, of course, was Jesus.

Also, Chardata and imthefoolonthehill, you both hit the nail on the head with your statements. Although, I'm not quite sure which scripture you were refering to, Chardata, but the entire chapter of John 17 is Jesus' prayer in Gethsemane before he was crucified. I think this might support your statement.

I hope that helps to explain! :D

[Chardata]

Shea, thanks...and it was the prayer at Gethsemane. Ok...yes, Jesus was the son of God...but he was God too. The trinity are one but they are not the same ppl. Its confusing and i don't get it completely...i think this is something i take by faith. Take this ROUGH example. You are son/daughter of your parents...but you are still a best friend, sibling/cousin, student, (will be) husband/wife...etc. Now, you are all these but you are the same person. Right? Now like i said this is a rough sketch of the idea but it somewhat explains it. Or...think of your fingers...take three for a sence of argument...all three fingers are fingers but they do different jobs and move seperately yet they are all part of your hand. God the Father, Son, and Spirit...are all one yet they aren't. They serve diff. perposes and do diff things but they still work together. Ok....i'm probally not making any sense now but i hope this helps explain things. 8)

[Ickmeister]

What I meant was that Jesus had the same connection that we have the opportunity to have with God, before the crucifixion. Like when you live with your parents, you live in the same house but have separate rooms, but if you want to you can easily go to your parents room. (I know that was a run on sentence.) But I do think that some time while Jesus was on the cross he was completely separated, because God is perfect and God cannot be with inperfection. It says in the Bible, (I don't know where) that Jesus who had no sin became sin to save us from it, or something close to that.

[DumbLikeAPoet]

What I meant was that Jesus had the same connection that we have the opportunity to have with God, before the crucifixion

Sorry but you might really want to study your bible. Within Jesus dwelt all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. Which means he was God in a body, he was not seperate from God.

JonUs

[Chardata]

DumbLikeAPoet is right. I agree.

[Stanislaw]

Jesus is part of the holy trinity, one being manifested in three parts, God the father, Jesus Christ and the holy spirit. This is not an easy concept to tckle but, to the best of my understanding, the three parts are one entity forever conected. :o

[Ickmeister]

ok, I have diferent beliefs now. I still think he was separate from his deity, but I think that deity is the power and knowledge that comes from being God. This belief partly comes from a bible verse (I don't know where) that 'he grew and waxed in the spirit' I'm paraphrasing.

[Stanislaw]

Jesus could still bask in the glory of God, while being the manifistation of God on earth. He was Physically seperate but perhaps coneected on the spiritual leve...

[Ickmeister]

Exactly!

[blazeofglory]

Jesus was a human being. We all are in fact from one source, Jesus, us, and all beings. We are equals. Why to discriminate?

Jesus was the one who was a little more elevated or enlightened.

[togre]

Blazeofglory--your statement flatly contradicts the entirety of Holy Scripture.

Ickmeister, I think the passage you are referencing is Luke 2:52 "And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men."

To understand this, and other passages that speak about Jesus you have to understand two truths that the Bible teaches.

First, The Incarnation. While Jesus was from eternity true God, he was incarnate, took on flesh, took on human nature (not replacing his deity, but in addition and conjunction to it). This is why he did somethings that only a human could do (grow in knowledge, get hungry, cry, grow tired, die) and God does not do.

Second, Christ's Humiliation. While on this earth, Jesus humbled himself. He was still fully God in all that this entails, but he voluntarily refrained from exercising his divine power and right. This is clearly taught in Philippians 2:5-8

5Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!


It should be noted that Jesus' deity is not just some obscure scholarly point. It is directly related to the essence of the Christian message. Jesus had to be God if he were going to live a sinless life no one else could. Jesus had to be God if he were going to offer his life as a sacrifice and ransom for sin. Jesus claimed to be true God. He was crucified on the charge of blaspheme--he claimed to be equal to God. He was vindicated in this claim and in the sufficiency of his saving work when he was raised to life on Easter Sunday.

[blazeofglory]

There is a little confusion and we should know why we are less than Jesus. In fact Jesus originated from the same origin from where we did. Jesus' works were as humanely as ours are.

There were mentions about miracles. His miracles were not magical.

I like Jesus as a human being not as a deity. He was very benevolently humane.

I can not subscribe to the other form, the divine form of him.

I understand him as a well learned and wise human being and I can give more regards than this.