No Subject

[Zach Houllfield]

ok i loved this book but it depressed the hell out of me. because good does not prevail over evil in the world of 1984. its just so demorallising. especially now days when there is so much hate and evil in our world i would like to think that good will overcome it. so upon readings this book dont get too affected by it because in the real world good overcomes evil. like the allies overcame the nazis. and saddam was defeated and talliban was defeated.

[catman]

I too believe that good prevails. Unfortunately, evil will have to run its course and leave a trail of sorrow and misery before good prevails again. Witness the current American president and his evil empire!

1984 is here as evidenced by the the american president's grip on the media and the ongoing dismantling of civil liberties in America. Scary, isn't it?

[stevewilkesuk]

You have to be careful with labels like 'good' and 'evil'. Not so much with the Nazis, but both Hussein and the Taliban were supported in a variety of ways by the West (neither would have likely come to power without us) before they outlived their usefullness and were discarded.

The fact that chances are you (and the vast majority of people - you're by no means alone) don't know about the history between the 'good' West and these people we now choose to label 'evil' is testament to Orwell's memory hole at work in modern journalism.

As an example, at the time when the French were talking about vetoing a second UN resolution authorising war on Iraq, the British tabloid The Sun printed a picture of Jaques Chiraq meeting Saddam Hussein. The idea was that the French had a long history of appeasement and this photo just went to prove it. What wasn't mentioned or printed was Donald Rumsfeld meeting with Saddam Hussein (twice) in order to sell him the weapons that the war was supposedly about. This inconvenient fact is sent down the memory hole and forgotten, just as Orwell writes.

[Logos]

I know it's sometimes difficult to stay away from using current government/political examples while discussing the themes in 1984, but please refrain from mention of current political situations and figures like Hussein, Rumsfeld etc.

[Nerd]

I think 1984 is a cautionary tale. Perhaps 'good' doesn't prevail, per se, which depressed the hell out of me too. I'm still sulking. Maybe that Winston had a purpose for us, yet. Don't give in to orthodoxy, you know? It had to have been told from this perspective because it's easy to be repelled by something that's gross and wrong (big brother and the Party), but when Winston gets engrossed in it, you're screaming at him to do the 'right thing'. By listening to our screaming, we hear what Orwell was saying.

[tim wendall]

Wondering if zach realised some interesting similarities between the book 1984 and the practices of the americans. for instance setting up bin laden and supporting him, and now fighting him. This may be little known in america i presume but is strikingly similar to the way the party changes its position towards eastasia. There are again similarities between cia listening posts and big brother watching us, finally has anyone else (probably not american) noticed the similarities between the ministry of love and guantamano bay locking people up torturing them, maybe they will learn to love their American oppressors? In the real world Orwell's predictions are no more clearly reflected by anyone than the Bush administration.

[Cheeselog3000]

The ending of Nineteen Eighty-Four is not so glib as you make out. The Newspeak guide that comes at the end of the book refers to BB and Newspeak in the past tense; therefore good must have prevailed at some point after the story of Winston and Julia.